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Subject: VGG QOTD 2019 May 5 - What aspect of modern gaming annoys you the most? rss

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There's a lot of great things in here to be annoyed by. For me:

* Pay-to-win revenue schemes

* Fragile fans that see any criticism of a game they like as an emergency and/or personal attack.

* Fragile fans feeling like they own a property and flipping out over changes to it that they don't personally like. Double annoyance points if they use the phrase "raping my childhood" or similarly overheated language.

* Console wars, PC vs Console Wars, or more generally, any time someone has a problem with what someone else likes, and needs to make sure everyone knows about it.

* People complaining about "politics" in games, which usually means games acknowledging that people other than straight white males exist, and have desires, talents, and goals.

* Crafting. I don't get a lot of value out of combining two imaginary things to make a third imaginary thing.

* The relentless churn of consumerism and seeking the next big thing.
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I agree that there's too many SJWs in gaming these days, however I have always enjoyed taking two imaginary things and combining them into another imaginary thing. Love me some of that wilderness survival monotony!
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Lord_Kristof wrote:
releasing unfinished games to be updated later


Yeah, I mean I thought about adding this, but isn't it the norm for most video games these days?

They meet the deadline with a 'working' game, then finish it once its on the market..
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Zimeon wrote:
Patrick Carroll wrote:
All this jumping around from one game to another, wading through the thousands of games available to play, is perhaps the aspect of modern gaming that annoys me the most. Personally I could do without the embarrassment of riches.

I see your point, but I do think we have different expectations upon what a game is – for me, it's mostly a work of art, something personal, like a book or a story. There is no "the one and only" story, or painting, or sculpture really – it's not the point of sculpting or painting or books. They are all different, and express different things. So what annoys me there is when they try to tie you to it.

If games is a plaything, something you play to train or tantalize your brain, then I'm all with you – would be wonderful to have one game to delve into. But that's not at all how I play video games.

I'll bet that has a lot to do with whether a person grew up playing video games. If you started when you were a kid, you mastered the basic skills early, and they became second nature to you--the way, say, reading is to me. I don't normally have to think about the process of reading; that's automatic. I can go right to appreciating the work of literature--the style, the nuances, and all of that.

But when I play a game (any game--board, card, video, or whatever), it's never something that I practiced a lot when I was little. I didn't start learning the basic skills of video gaming till I was about 25, and I've never used most of them very much. For the most part, I stick to TBS games, which are the most like board games. I never played board games frequently, though; each one was (and still is) a chore to learn.

So, there's nothing automatic about video gaming to me, the way there is with reading or movie watching or listening to music. Because I'm weak or lacking in basic video-gaming skills, there's a barrier to my enjoying video games as works of art. Even a game controller is a complicated foreign object to me--something I've seldom had my hands on.

Just yesterday, I finished reading Ulysses (by James Joyce). A lot of it probably went over my head, but I was able to get through it and appreciate it as a literary work. I couldn't have done that without years of reading practice under my belt--practice that began at an early age.

Similarly, I think that in order to fully appreciate video games as works of art, you have to have been playing them since you were little. Then the basic process of playing is automatic, and you can focus on what more the game has to offer.

When I was just learning to read, I'd look at a shelf full of books and wonder how anybody could possibly read them all in a whole lifetime. It looked like a ton of time-consuming work.

That's kinda how a library full of video games looks to me now. Each one might be a special work of art, but at my skill level it would take more than the rest of my life to even sample them all, much less truly appreciate them.

So a video game, to me, is something I'm going to buckle down to and work at for a long while. It's not something I can casually pick up and explore.
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Patrick Carroll wrote:
Similarly, I think that in order to fully appreciate video games as works of art, you have to have been playing them since you were little. Then the basic process of playing is automatic, and you can focus on what more the game has to offer.


Perhaps. I didn't start _that_ early – I started playing when I was 10, maybe. But it's also a matter of what you like. A lot of people who started playing later than I, seem to first and foremost like the competitive edge, or the strategic edge (like you). Like in board games, I'm not much for an interesting engine that you try to optimize – I like when random stuff happens to me in the game, that kind of creates a story.

I don't think I can casually pick up and explore the games that you're playing – it sounds as if you're much more into brain-exercize strategy. I think I'm just picking games that do look like works of art.
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Zimeon wrote:
The aspect of "this is the last game you'll ever need in life"

I.e, cramming extra stuff and achievements and stuff you can do and new game+ and "get the final ending" or "discover all endings" or "did you know you can craft your own blablabla", or, generally put, not just being a goddamn game, but a lifestyle.

I will expand this and say that even without gimmicks for replay, this is exactly the problem I have with open world games. A lot of people in the topic named things that are vile practices in modern gaming, but this is the one thing that has affected me so personally that I avoid large swaths of modern gaming accordingly and am far more likely to reach back to retro gaming.

I've talked before about my issues with too much content in a game, but I'll expand that post and say that another thing that bothers me about the kitchen-sink approach is that I love variety. I don't need to spend hundreds of hours on every game. (Usually. Paradoxically, I also inspired this topic.) I want to enjoy the experience and move on. Hypothetically a open world game allows a self-disciplined player to find the paths that lead to the end, but so much well designed content is lost in the process. To find all that content though, you run into the problem that I illustrated in my aforementioned post above.
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That a game has to be ridiculously difficult. I've noticed that there are very few easy games available for Nintendo Switch whether physical or eShop exclusive. 2018 had a lot more easy games than 2017, but I still have trouble finding easy games.
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JohnRayJr wrote:
paralipsis wrote:
Gambling by a myriad of other names in order to avoid the legal implications but still function in the same way psychologically and economically.


manukajoe wrote:
Oh God the constant insistence on online multiplayer gulp


Lord_Kristof wrote:

If I was to pick just one of those, I'd probably go with microtransactions, as those are the most obviously wrong in my opinion (a method of monetization borrowed from free to play games, which themselves introduced the entirely idiotic concept that you can have something a lot of people worked on for many months or even years for free), and in addition serve as insidious tools for messing with the balance of even purely single-player experiences.


Peristarkawan wrote:
"Gamer" culture.


Nailed it. Would be hard to choose among these. And while it certainly falls under "gamer culture," I would add:

Fervent, naive, uncritical, fragile, born-yesterday, anticipation-obsessed fandom; fandom as identity; fandom that seeks to define, claim, and defend the presumptive validation of unreleased games; fandom as emotional vulnerability that seeks to pre-empt disappointment at all costs.


Sums it up for me as well. It's a dark dark day when loot boxes are third on my list behind shoe-horned multiplayer (which all spring from the lazy version of the GaaS cesspool). Gamer culture just has crushed what little hope I had in humanity. So much incessant and nonsensical tribalism over trivial things.
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What annoys me the most is how many companies and beloved franchises get ruined because the publishers are perfectly willing to destroy a game's reputation in order to make a quick buck.
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Flyboy Connor wrote:
What annoys me the most is how many companies and beloved franchises get ruined because the publishers are perfectly willing to destroy a game's reputation in order to make a quick buck.

I think a corollary of that is the tendency of big publishers to turn beloved franchises into too-big-to-fail projects. So much gets invested in these gigantic projects (Mass Effect Andromeda, Fallout 76, Anthem,
et al.) that despite them being of such low quality and polish, that they have to get shipped regardless of that. These colossal projects are basically being turned into minimum viable products in order to recoup investments that cannot easily be written off without serious consequences.

At the root of this I feel may be a tendency of human psychology to base our purchasing habits on past experiences. I remember a few years back listening to the X-Files Files podcast, where they would frequently mention the Nielsen ratings for the episode being discussed. And it was observed that it was usually the quality of the previous episode that seemed to drive ratings for the following week. Essentially the positive water cooler talk after a good episode encouraged people to watch the show the following week. Sometimes that led to some of the clearly weakest episodes getting quite high ratings. I think the value of pre-order sales suggests that AAA video games work the same way. A good game in a series, propped up by heavy marketing, can drive sales of a followup game that can barely justify its own existence. The people in charge of those decision don't have to bear the direct brunt of it, because the full impact to the bottom line only comes further down the road when people choose to avoid the next title in the series, regardless of its qualities. If the people making those decisions have moved onto other positions by then they avoid the consequences of their decisions, thus creating moral hazard and the perverse incentive to pump out awful games. At worst, the post-launch sales can "fail to meet expectations" by some degree or another, but that seems to only amount to +/- a million or so for games expected to sell multiple millions of copies. Not enough to move the needle into shareholder revolt, and thus the acceptable compromise compared to scrapping a wayward project and writing off several hundreds of millions of dollars in lost development costs.
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I think it is a direct consequence of pre-ordering. If people would not be willing to pre-order, the first PLAYER (rather than journalist) reviews would be out before the bulk of the sales would take place, and the publisher would not be able to afford releasing a turd.
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Flyboy Connor wrote:
I think it is a direct consequence of pre-ordering. If people would not be willing to pre-order, the first PLAYER (rather than journalist) reviews would be out before the bulk of the sales would take place, and the publisher would not be able to afford releasing a turd.

I agree, but the personal responsibility argument only goes so far. There would also be fewer lung cancer deaths if people didn't smoke. Once a problem is observable at a large enough scale, then I think some form of collective approach is required.

For instance, if there were legislation that mandated that refunds be available to all pre-order customers within seven days of the launch of a game no questions asked, then I think we'd see preorder culture change dramatically. It wouldn't prohibit the behaviour, and people would still get to play their games on launch day as usual if they wanted to, but publishers wouldn't exactly be quite so eager to offer pre-sales of games.
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paralipsis wrote:
And it was observed that it was usually the quality of the previous episode that seemed to drive ratings for the following week. Essentially the positive water cooler talk after a good episode encouraged people to watch the show the following week. Sometimes that led to some of the clearly weakest episodes getting quite high ratings.


Isn't this a very known fact? I remember hearing FFIX got very low sales, and that's why Square abandoned the cutey approach, but I always imagined that was because people were disappointed with VIII.
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paralipsis wrote:
Flyboy Connor wrote:
What annoys me the most is how many companies and beloved franchises get ruined because the publishers are perfectly willing to destroy a game's reputation in order to make a quick buck.

I think a corollary of that is the tendency of big publishers to turn beloved franchises into too-big-to-fail projects. So much gets invested in these gigantic projects (Mass Effect Andromeda, Fallout 76, Anthem,
et al.) that despite them being of such low quality and polish, that they have to get shipped regardless of that. These colossal projects are basically being turned into minimum viable products in order to recoup investments that cannot easily be written off without serious consequences.


While I agree that publishers and greed are a major problem, I think a lot of it comes down to bad management:

EA buys BioWare then demands that the jewel of single player RPGs make a multiplayer game. That just isn't their strength. It isn't what their audience wants. Why would you make them do that? Either they shouldn't have acquired the company, which doesn't match any of their stated goals, or they should have planned to use the company for what it is good at. (You also have issues with most of BioWare management leaving and a lot of Anthem's problems being linked to the people in charge not being willing to make a final decision until they drag the guy in charge of Dragon Age over to say "Do this. Don't do that.")

With Mass Effect: Andromeda, EA gave a major release, the essential relaunch of its valuable IP, over to the C team. Why? It's not that you have to be recognized top tier talent to turn out something good, but ummm... maybe you want a few people who have handled something this big and important in charge? Maybe?

EA also has the issues with foisting the FrostByte engine onto everyone, requiring them to learn how to use it and then build all of the assets they need because it wasn't built for RPGs. They made a poor management choice in not providing appropriate support for this move.

Then you have Bethesda and Fallout 76. Again, did management have the least clue what customers really wanted in terms of story? No NPCs? Oh, and screw the established lore of the world that might help real people build comprehensible stories with prior knowledge from other games.

Instead of using a *new* engine like the fools at EA, we'll keep chugging along with our old engine that traditionally has glitches that are fixed by player mods. Wait, we can't allow our traditional method of player modding to fix our mistakes in an MMO because that will allow cheats to encroach on other players' games? FFFFFFFFFF*ck.

And always on voice chat. Who cares if random people yell Chuck Norris, cough, blow their noses, get interrupted by people sitting behind them, etc. That won't break immersion at all.

***

I've seen a lot of places take the stance that criticism/negativity is a bad thing. But the thing is, you need someone to criticize and see the problems so that then that person or the group as a whole can also figure out work arounds for the problems before they become actual issues that make customers unhappy.

Personally, I could have avoided all of the mistakes above because that kind of thinking is my default setting. But only something like 2-5% of the population thinks like that (At one point personality and cognitive tests were a hobby of mine).
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Mysti_Fogg wrote:
Personally, I could have avoided all of the mistakes above because that kind of thinking is my default setting. But only something like 2-5% of the population thinks like that (At one point personality and cognitive tests were a hobby of mine).

Yeah, yeah--smart, critical people always (mis)type themselves as INTJs.

Just kidding. I don't know your type, and I'm sure that what you say about the management of game companies is probably right on. I just don't have enough knowledge to even begin to judge, so I'll have to take your word for it. Your comments make good sense.

(Geeky people mistyping as INTJs really is a problem in that other field, however. I know one fellow who specializes in sorting out real INTJs from fake ones, so to speak. He interviewed my wife over dinner one evening and concluded that INTJ truly is her most likely type. It's his too. It's not mine--mine's INFP.)
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-no way to save/transfer game save files
Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii) from one Wii console to another
I need to look up how to do so for Steam games and Android games

-spam and junk in chat rooms
Blizzard's BattleNet, the General and Coop chat rooms, a bunch of stuff about gf's pussy, Trump 2024 (yes, he did mention twenty four, not next year), and other RSP stuff. At least I can ignore these comments

-treating casual games like it's a life or death situation
One game for StarCraft 2 Coop mode, I say "gg". He replies "no gg. I did all the work".

He played a stronger commander (character), but TBF, he seemed like he was better. He left before I could tell him "In that case, gj. Have a beer and cookie then"

-freemium, f2p, and pay to win done in THE WORST WAYS
Plants Vs. Zombies 2 takes the cake. They introduced leveling up plants, which to purists, would destroy the balance and challenge of the game. Or make it such that those who level up come out ahead. I could easily argue the merits of both sides in another thread (or 2).

I found it decent at first. Leveling up from lv1 to lv4 or lv5 wasn't bad. Leveling up from that to lv7 to lv9 was just horrendous. A Wikia posted tables, I did some math, and it'd take about 3 to 5 years of grinding to get to that point.

-multiple currencies
"gems" is possibly the worst word and currency you can hear in games. Granted, not all games that use "gems" are created equal.
PvZ2 has multiple of these:
Coins are the standard. Fine
Gems are premium. Fine too. Another one, and 1st premium doesn't seem so bad
Seed packets = These are the "XP points" used to level up plants. What's worse is it's not like some typical RPG, or StarCraft 2 Coop mode where XP is generic for the whole party/everyone. HERE, they have specific seed packets for each plant. E.g. want to level up your Primal Peashooter? Beat a level, get seed packets for Laser Bean instead. Beat another level, get seed packets for Bombegranate. Don't have Bombegranate? Well, you can reap the seed packets applied there by paying real money for it to unlock it forever
Gauntlets = "admission ticket" for their new, Battlez mode, which pushes you to spend even more money. EA Rep statement says you don't need to do this, but many of the best rewards are here
Mints = to buy and upgrade their new family of plants

Ever since I quit, you can now upgrade plants through Mastery after you max them out in level
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Patrick Carroll wrote:
Mysti_Fogg wrote:
Personally, I could have avoided all of the mistakes above because that kind of thinking is my default setting. But only something like 2-5% of the population thinks like that (At one point personality and cognitive tests were a hobby of mine).

Yeah, yeah--smart, critical people always (mis)type themselves as INTJs.

Just kidding. I don't know your type, and I'm sure that what you say about the management of game companies is probably right on. I just don't have enough knowledge to even begin to judge, so I'll have to take your word for it. Your comments make good sense.

(Geeky people mistyping as INTJs really is a problem in that other field, however. I know one fellow who specializes in sorting out real INTJs from fake ones, so to speak. He interviewed my wife over dinner one evening and concluded that INTJ truly is her most likely type. It's his too. It's not mine--mine's INFP.)


That is, indeed, my type. I didn't set out for it to be my type. It just sort of is. I didn't read about the types and decide what I was. I took tests and this was the result. My fascination with personality tests actually developed years after the first time I tested.

And as I'm a woman and percentage-wise Thinking and Feeling both represent 50% of the population, but within those categories the gender split is 75/25 representing cultural norms of whatever culture is examined, I end up in an even tinier demographic since women are supposed to be Feelers and men are supposed to be Thinkers in the US (apparently you find the opposite split along with the opposite cultural norm in Iran). I'm sure you're aware of all of that, though. It's just something of a burden.

If someone thinks I fit somewhere else, I'd love to talk to him to find out where I'm missing my true calling. Because in order to deal with the demands that women should be more empathic, I've had to basically build a database of expected emotional reactions and results to analyze in order to figure out appropriate solutions so that I could stop hearing about how I was failing at being female. I'm definitely on the extreme end of being a Thinker when it comes to that dichotomy and occasionally feel like I'm running a computer program when I have to deal with people crying because my sincere and natural reactions are deemed uncaring. All I can say is that I must actually care or I wouldn't have gone through the effort of collecting, collating, and creating a series of responses to satisfy others.

It's a bit of a sore point. People also get upset with me for not visibly cracking under pressure or otherwise panicking about things. I do crack eventually, but it's at a much higher level of stress than they wanted. And I rarely, if ever, panic.

Though I think a basic NT method of thinking would do. I vs E would likely not be as big a deal. J may be necessary if you actually want problems solved and conclusions reached, but Ps with an NT way of thinking are still very good at pointing out contradictions and problems.

Some of the industry issue may be, again, with the negative attitude toward criticism of any kind. There's a whole "game developers are artists and artists are very sensitive souls that you should not hurt" way of thinking in some quarters. So anyone with the skills to stop stupid things from happening may get told to shut up for not being "considerate". Some of the indecision at BioWare and lack of leadership seems to come from a desire to be sensitive to all points of view so that no one is willing to be "the bad guy" and say "No. This is what we're doing. No, that doesn't work. Yes. We're going to use Paul's designs and not Bill's." etc.

I can sympathize with not wanting to hear about how much a project you're (general) working on sucks, but if the point is literally to make it better so that it doesn't suck before people who are much meaner decide to rip it to shreds, I'm of the opinion that's an area where you need to toughen up a little bit and listen to the problems now before it gets worse.
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Mysti_Fogg wrote:
Patrick Carroll wrote:
Mysti_Fogg wrote:
Personally, I could have avoided all of the mistakes above because that kind of thinking is my default setting. But only something like 2-5% of the population thinks like that (At one point personality and cognitive tests were a hobby of mine).

Yeah, yeah--smart, critical people always (mis)type themselves as INTJs.

Just kidding. I don't know your type, and I'm sure that what you say about the management of game companies is probably right on. I just don't have enough knowledge to even begin to judge, so I'll have to take your word for it. Your comments make good sense.

(Geeky people mistyping as INTJs really is a problem in that other field, however. I know one fellow who specializes in sorting out real INTJs from fake ones, so to speak. He interviewed my wife over dinner one evening and concluded that INTJ truly is her most likely type. It's his too. It's not mine--mine's INFP.)

That is, indeed, my type. I didn't set out for it to be my type. It just sort of is. I didn't read about the types and decide what I was. I took tests and this was the result. My fascination with personality tests actually developed years after the first time I tested.

And as I'm a woman and percentage-wise Thinking and Feeling both represent 50% of the population, but within those categories the gender split is 75/25 representing cultural norms of whatever culture is examined, I end up in an even tinier demographic since women are supposed to be Feelers and men are supposed to be Thinkers in the US (apparently you find the opposite split along with the opposite cultural norm in Iran). I'm sure you're aware of all of that, though. It's just something of a burden.

If someone thinks I fit somewhere else, I'd love to talk to him to find out where I'm missing my true calling. Because in order to deal with the demands that women should be more empathic, I've had to basically build a database of expected emotional reactions and results to analyze in order to figure out appropriate solutions so that I could stop hearing about how I was failing at being female. I'm definitely on the extreme end of being a Thinker when it comes to that dichotomy and occasionally feel like I'm running a computer program when I have to deal with people crying because my sincere and natural reactions are deemed uncaring. All I can say is that I must actually care or I wouldn't have gone through the effort of collecting, collating, and creating a series of responses to satisfy others.

It's a bit of a sore point. People also get upset with me for not visibly cracking under pressure or otherwise panicking about things. I do crack eventually, but it's at a much higher level of stress than they wanted. And I rarely, if ever, panic.

Though I think a basic NT method of thinking would do. I vs E would likely not be as big a deal. J may be necessary if you actually want problems solved and conclusions reached, but Ps with an NT way of thinking are still very good at pointing out contradictions and problems.

Some of the industry issue may be, again, with the negative attitude toward criticism of any kind. There's a whole "game developers are artists and artists are very sensitive souls that you should not hurt" way of thinking in some quarters. So anyone with the skills to stop stupid things from happening may get told to shut up for not being "considerate". Some of the indecision at BioWare and lack of leadership seems to come from a desire to be sensitive to all points of view so that no one is willing to be "the bad guy" and say "No. This is what we're doing. No, that doesn't work. Yes. We're going to use Paul's designs and not Bill's." etc.

I can sympathize with not wanting to hear about how much a project you're (general) working on sucks, but if the point is literally to make it better so that it doesn't suck before people who are much meaner decide to rip it to shreds, I'm of the opinion that's an area where you need to toughen up a little bit and listen to the problems now before it gets worse.

Well, FWIW, after reading all that, I'm convinced you could actually be one of those rare INTJs. I've lived with one for over thirty years, and what you say closely parallels her experiences and what I've observed and heard about them.

And in kind of a backward way, I can relate to your plight. As an INFP, I have what some call the stereotypical "female" type. So, for one thing, I rely on Feeling even where Thinking would be more useful or appropriate; and to a casual observer I might look more passive, scattered, and wishy-washy than a man should be. Like you, I've had to compensate all my life, finding ways to be more initiating, assertive, logical, and pragmatic when I need to be. To my wife, of course, I'm a lost cause; but I guess I fake it well enough for the rest of the world.
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Jennifer Hanses
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Patrick Carroll wrote:


And in kind of a backward way, I can relate to your plight. As an INFP, I have what some call the stereotypical "female" type. So, for one thing, I rely on Feeling even where Thinking would be more useful or appropriate; and to a casual observer I might look more passive, scattered, and wishy-washy than a man should be. Like you, I've had to compensate all my life, finding ways to be more initiating, assertive, logical, and pragmatic when I need to be. To my wife, of course, I'm a lost cause; but I guess I fake it well enough for the rest of the world.


I did hope you might understand from having the similar but opposite problem.

And however much you might be a lost cause to her, you probably suit each other well for the differences.

Apparently gamers in general tend to be gender atypical according to another source I've been watching lately, but I haven't read anything actually scholarly and the source itself doesn't always do the research. I'm rather interested if it's true, however.
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Mysti_Fogg wrote:
Apparently gamers in general tend to be gender atypical according to another source I've been watching lately, but I haven't read anything actually scholarly and the source itself doesn't always do the research. I'm rather interested if it's true, however.

That is an interesting speculation. It'd tie in with the notion that people play games to give them an outlet for behaviors they tend not to express in daily life.

(Of course, these days I'm becoming less and less sure what "gender atypical" even means. I used to think I knew. But then I also thought there were only two genders instead of the six or so people talk about now.)
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Mysti_Fogg wrote:
People also get upset with me for not visibly cracking under pressure or otherwise panicking about things.


What? You mean you do not faint and fall to the floor when you hear something upsetting? And here I was, thinking that's the typical female reaction.

(saw a piece of a Columbo episode last weekend, and facepalmed)
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OT:

Zimeon wrote:
Mysti_Fogg wrote:
People also get upset with me for not visibly cracking under pressure or otherwise panicking about things.


What? You mean you do not faint and fall to the floor when you hear something upsetting? And here I was, thinking that's the typical female reaction.

(saw a piece of a Columbo episode last weekend, and facepalmed)


LOL

It's worse than that, I don't get an adreneline spike and start working faster because I'm running out of time, or at least if I do it's not the same as other people's/doesn't kick in at the same point. My boss was angry at me because that's how it's supposed to work in her mind.

Though I was wondering if I should have told the story of almost drowning. I nearly drowned when I was 5, and I don't remember that one too clearly, but I do remember the time I nearly drown when I was 7. I was bouncing up and down on the line between the shallow end and the deep end in a neighbor's pool because I was a kid and I thought it was fun. My foot slipped and I slid down the incline. I hopped and couldn't reach the surface. Rather than panicking and thrashing and trying to scream, my thoughts were more along the lines of "That's bad. Hmmmm... I can still hop and I'm near the edge. I should try to hop myself up the incline or over to the edge of the pool since I can reach higher up with my hands and then I might be able to pull myself out. This is fine. I can handle this." And then I calmly began to enact my plan. Did not actually succeed because neighbor gentleman came out of his house and saw that I was below the surface and that my mom and neighbor lady had gotten distracted when they were supposed to be watching us, so he dove in (lit cigarette still in mouth) and saved me. Probably for the best, I managed to slip further down the incline and was a little too short to get out myself, so chances were my plan would have failed.

Still, I remember very clearly feeling calm and peaceful and only a little bit worried due to missing my target and slipping. I was certain that if I just kept trying and didn't give up, I could figure this out. I'm told that's not how drowning is supposed to work.

I got swimming lessons later that summer.
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Mysti_Fogg wrote:
OT:

Zimeon wrote:
Mysti_Fogg wrote:
People also get upset with me for not visibly cracking under pressure or otherwise panicking about things.

What? You mean you do not faint and fall to the floor when you hear something upsetting? And here I was, thinking that's the typical female reaction.

(saw a piece of a Columbo episode last weekend, and facepalmed)

LOL

It's worse than that, I don't get an adrenaline spike and start working faster because I'm running out of time, or at least if I do it's not the same as other people's/doesn't kick in at the same point. My boss was angry at me because that's how it's supposed to work in her mind.

Yep, you've got me convinced of your type. My wife, Sheralyn, is the same way, and I'm practically the opposite.

Years ago, we were at a shopping mall with her mother and sister, and Sheralyn lost her credit card. When she realized it, she immediately became quiet and thoughtful. She backtracked a bit, checked at the last store she was at, then called to put a hold on the card. Meanwhile, I was upset and getting furious because she wasn't. "You just lost something valuable," I said. "We need that card. You were responsible for it. How can you not be upset over this?" I made a scene in front of her family, and she was upset about that. But her mother and sister more or less sided with me, saying they could more easily understand getting upset than taking the matter calmly.

It took years for me to catch on and realize Sheralyn's being cool, calm, and collected is not a sign that she's irresponsible.

Me, I overreact to every little thing. Lifting a coffee out of the cup holder in my new car, I was aghast when the lid came loose and a little coffee spilled. I screamed expletives at the top of my voice and probably attracted the attention of the neighbors. Sheralyn glared at me and walked away without saying a word. But she soon made it clear that she didn't want to be around that kind of negative overreaction.

Another time, I walked through deep snow in the backyard to feed the birds. I was wearing low boots with open tops, and snow got inside. When I got back to the garage, the pain in my feet was giving way to numbness, and then I found I couldn't get the boots off because of the packed-in snow. Fearing frostbite, after several tries, I lost it and screamed for help. Sheralyn came running out but was disgusted when she saw the situation. "I thought you had cut off a limb or something," she said. She offered some instant solution to the problem (pouring hot water into the boots or something; I forget) and turned her attention to more important things.

It has taken years for her to realize I'll never sit quietly and enjoy a computer game. Every time something takes me by surprise or goes against me, I'm sure to at least grumble, and sometimes I'll raise the roof.

In short, there's no connection between the severity of a problem and my emotional reaction to it. Or if there is, the reaction is in inverse proportion to the weight of the problem. I was a lot calmer about being diagnosed with a cancerous tumor than I was about the lost credit card, spilled coffee, or snow-filled boots.
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FWIW, I also tend to be very calm and collected in a crisis, but I self-identify as IS?P, not INTJ.
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Peristarkawan wrote:
FWIW, I also tend to be very calm and collected in a crisis, but I self-identify as IS?P, not INTJ.

In a real crisis? Or just when little things go surprisingly wrong?

It's the latter I overreact to. In a real crisis, I tend to be calm too.

If, when a minor problem or irritation suddenly crops up, your first reaction is something like, "Hmm, this is a little disappointing. How shall I proceed to deal with it?" you can probably replace your question mark with a T.

If your reaction is more like (mine), "OMG! WTF! Things like this should never happen," you can probably replace your question mark with an F.

These coded preferences (N/S, T/F) indicate what you automatically do most of the time. How you react or behave in a crisis might differ, as you'll do what's necessary then, regardless of your preferences.
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