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Subject: VGG QOTD 2019 May 14 - What's your favorite "clone" game? rss

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JohnRayJr wrote:
Lord_Kristof wrote:
Probably Warhammer: End Times – Vermintide, which is basically a Warhammer-themed Left 4 Dead. It borrowed a lot of that game's DNA, most obviously the special Skaven who are translated almost beat-for-beat from some of L4Ds (and its sequel's) special foes.

manukajoe wrote:
Oh I have a better answer!

Tomb Raider (2013), which is an Uncharted clone!


Oh man, that's not my impression at all! Tomb Raider plays barely anything like Uncharted. Sure, it owes a lot of its thematic content to the series, but tone-wise, and mechanics-wise the two are almost entirely different!


Are you talking about the overall TR series or the 2013 reboot?

I actually think that comparisons of the 2013 Tomb Raider to the Uncharted trilogy have been understated. TR 2013 owes just about everything to Uncharted, gameplay included. Of course it has the silly horror-gore vibe, it has a slight layer of collectible clutter that goes beyond the treasure-hunting in Uncharted, and it has minimal crafting and upgrading, but in my mind those things amount to about a 5% variation.

I do agree that, with Shadow of the Tomb Raider and Rise of the Tomb Raider, it has started to branch off more into its own thing.

Uncharted wouldn't exist without the popularity of the original TR games, so that's why I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing. But TR's popularity/viability was in trouble for all of the early 2000s, and Underworld, released 1 year after the first Uncharted, was a flop (and a bad game).

TR 2013 could have been titled: Uncharted: Wrath of the Sun Queen, and all you would have needed to do was rename Lara and give her some tangential connection to Nathan Drake.


QTE's and 'Cinematic storytelling', so ikky. I was disappointed Tomb Raider became a glorified 3rd person shooter too, not that thier PS2 outings were any better. Fun game, just nothing to do with tomb raider except a superficial theme. I remember when it first came out I was 10 hours in and said to myself in disgust 'they turned it into a f-n Uncharted game!!!'
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GibbRS wrote:
Patrick Carroll wrote:
adularia25 wrote:
Often clones don't say where they got their inspiration, they take without giving back to their roots.

Oh, like Led Zeppelin all music, then.


FTFY.


Skuuze me, Zog make banging rock before was kool. Ook.
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MeteorBear wrote:
QTE's and 'Cinematic storytelling', so ikky. I was disappointed Tomb Raider became a glorified 3rd person shooter too, not that thier PS2 outings were any better. Fun game, just nothing to do with tomb raider except a superficial theme. I remember when it first came out I was 10 hours in and said to myself in disgust 'they turned it into a f-n Uncharted game!!!'


Wait, are you saying that the original TR games weren't third-person shooters? I got bored of the first one pretty quickly because it didn't seem to be anything but jumping around and shooting. Except back then they didn't even make you have to aim.

Admittedly I didn't get very far into it.
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I actually prefer the Saints Row series to Grand Theft Auto III and onwards. Certainly an 'inspired by' category, but I can't say I've played an actual clone of a popular game.

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Heretic was my favourite Doom clone, although it went beyond it in a few ways (besides the reskin to fantasy).

Last Dream is an homage to early JRPGs and in particular the first Final Fantasy, which it cloned parts of. Six of its eight classes, for example, were the same. But it did its own thing in enough places, and did it well enough, to be an excellent game in its own right.
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Saints Row 2 instead of Grand Theft Auto – it was crazier, and had such a hilarious AI for the pedestrians.

Senritsu no Bisho instead of Biohazard/Resident Evil. It had a wonderful split-screen coop mode!

Star Fox Adventures as a Zelda-clone. It wasn't better though, but it was actually really good! Not very Starfoxy though.
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Woelf wrote:
Rise of the Triad (also not in the VGG database) was another odd one that I'd always assumed was a clone/knock-off of Wolfenstein 3D that fell into the gap just before Doom (1993) landed, but it turns out was actually created by Apogee Software (3D Realms) themselves. It wasn't particularly good, but was kinda fun for the time and did have some neat features to it, like breakable glass, and the way they faked elevations by putting floating platforms all over the place.


It is in the database: Rise of the Triad: Dark War and it was actually released a year after Doom.

Quote:
I think Doom was considered a clone at first, until everyone collectively realized how much better it was than Wolf3D, then everything after became "Doom clones" instead.


I'm not sure why Doom would be considered a clone of Wolf3D when they were both developed by the same company?
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Peristarkawan wrote:

Quote:
I think Doom was considered a clone at first, until everyone collectively realized how much better it was than Wolf3D, then everything after became "Doom clones" instead.


I'm not sure why Doom would be considered a clone of Wolf3D when they were both developed by the same company?


I was wondering this earlier, but didn't have time to double check their development history.

It would be like calling Dark Souls a clone of Demon's Souls - essentially a sequel with contextual reasons for establishing a superficially new IP.
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Peristarkawan wrote:
MeteorBear wrote:
QTE's and 'Cinematic storytelling', so ikky. I was disappointed Tomb Raider became a glorified 3rd person shooter too, not that thier PS2 outings were any better. Fun game, just nothing to do with tomb raider except a superficial theme. I remember when it first came out I was 10 hours in and said to myself in disgust 'they turned it into a f-n Uncharted game!!!'


Wait, are you saying that the original TR games weren't third-person shooters? I got bored of the first one pretty quickly because it didn't seem to be anything but jumping around and shooting. Except back then they didn't even make you have to aim.

Admittedly I didn't get very far into it.


The original Tomb Raider was an environmental puzzle/exploration/platforming game wrapped in an indiana jones style theme, played in 3rd person. There was combat but it was not the focus, though TRII did focus more on combat. You could take out the combat completely and still have a challenging, fun game. I would consider something more like Siphon Filter a 3rd person shooter.

Resident Evil went through the same thing, due to technology changes and the desire to appeal to a broader audience they dropped what made the series unique for a standard 3rd person shooter model.
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JohnRayJr wrote:
It would be like calling Dark Souls a clone of Demon's Souls - essentially a sequel with contextual reasons for establishing a superficially new IP.


I actually thought about using Dark Souls vs. Bloodborne as an analogy since like Wolf3D vs. Doom, the latter is actually a substantially different setting.
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Peristarkawan wrote:
Woelf wrote:
Rise of the Triad (also not in the VGG database) was another odd one that I'd always assumed was a clone/knock-off of Wolfenstein 3D that fell into the gap just before Doom (1993) landed, but it turns out was actually created by Apogee Software (3D Realms) themselves. It wasn't particularly good, but was kinda fun for the time and did have some neat features to it, like breakable glass, and the way they faked elevations by putting floating platforms all over the place.


It is in the database: Rise of the Triad: Dark War and it was actually released a year after Doom.
Sure enough, there it is! For some reason it wasn't coming up when I searched for it the other day.

JohnRayJr wrote:
Peristarkawan wrote:

Quote:
I think Doom was considered a clone at first, until everyone collectively realized how much better it was than Wolf3D, then everything after became "Doom clones" instead.


I'm not sure why Doom would be considered a clone of Wolf3D when they were both developed by the same company?


I was wondering this earlier, but didn't have time to double check their development history.

It would be like calling Dark Souls a clone of Demon's Souls - essentially a sequel with contextual reasons for establishing a superficially new IP.
I vaguely recall reading an article or two way back then that compared the two, with Doom being considered the clone simply because Wolfenstein came first.

Coming from the same company but with no thematic or story ties of any kind between them, Doom did kinda look like a repackaging (with some improvements) initially. Of course that turned out to be wildly inaccurate, and once enough other games came on the scene to consider FPS its own genre, most of the "clone" comparisons on that basis alone went away.
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MeteorBear wrote:

Resident Evil went through the same thing, due to technology changes and the desire to appeal to a broader audience they dropped what made the series unique for a standard 3rd person shooter model.


A useful comparison in that one could label the older RE games "third person shooters," but they don't play anything like the games usually described by the term, and aren't defined by / primarily about shooting (although those waters started to get muddy before the arrival of RE4).

Maybe an offshoot to what was already a sidepoint, but I'd also point out that Capcom tanked the RE brand pretty badly prior to RE4, independently of any frustration with things like tank controls or resource limits. I recently watched a youtube video about the full history of the franchise, and it actually had me laughing during the interval between RE3 (which right up until release was set to be titled as an expansion to RE2), and RE4. There are almost 10 RE-branded junk games cluttering the franchise between RE3 and RE4. That in itself created some urgency for Capcom to swing for the fences and revitalize the brand.

And, RE4 basically invented modern 3rd-person shooting. It is the clear origin of the over-the-shoulder perspective etc. Gears of War could not exist without RE4 and so on. Whereas Tomb Raider really did capitulate to newer norms after several failures, one could argue that RE4, more than any other game, created newer norms after extremely poor brand-management from Capcom.
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One of the earliest clone that I came across was Castle Smurfenstein a clone of Castle Wolfenstein. In the days of 5.4 floppy disks, I acquired a few games for my Apple IIc and this was one of them. In fact, I played this before Castle Wolfenstein. Most memorable about the game I can remember was the ability to get into a Smurf custom and infiltrate the castle.

True Crime: Streets of LA, a clone of GTA 3, was one of my favorite Xbox game. Like KOTOR, it had that alignment mechanic where through the course of play, you would lean towards good-bad cop. My only times in LA were in LAX airport but the game purports that the street map is an exact copy of a section of LA. What I loved about the game was, beside GTA related things, was going all over the city and finding masters that taught you new moves.

Stretching the terminology of a clone, Heroes of Might and Magic could be considered a clone of King's Bounty but with fantasy elements. I never plyed the original. My first experience was with HoMM II but to this day, I still keep HoMM III on my hard drive. What did I like about it? Everything! The game was perfect. The game was very well balanced from each factions' units to the layout of the maps. It gave you many races and factions to play with.
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Oni no board wrote:
True Crime: Streets of LA, a clone of GTA 3, was one of my favorite Xbox game.


I was also a big fan of this game. I played the Gamecube version. I don't know how I would view it now, but that crazy left turn it takes into supernatural territory was really cool and unexpected at the time.
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Woelf wrote:
Another cloned game that just came to mind was Jazz Jackrabbit. It was basically Sonic the Hedgehog, but a green rabbit... with a gun. I'd briefly played the original JJ, but it must have been fairly successful because there are several different versions and sequels in the VGG database.


I can't believe I forgot Jazz Jackrabbit! I played that one, too. I dd enjoy that one, so that has to be my favorite clone game.
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