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Patrick Carroll wrote:
Osirus wrote:
...anyway, to get back to the actual topic, the type of people who argue about and are annoyed about the use of the word literally are probably no fun and do not prefer arcade games, which are fun.

Then it would follow that the type of people who don't argue about, and are not annoyed about, the use of the word literally prefer simulation games?

Why, if that's the case, we could have simplified this whole thread by just asking how people feel about the word literally! Gabe, why didn't you do it that way?
Ah, but that doesn't make the inverse true.
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Patrick Carroll wrote:
Osirus wrote:
...anyway, to get back to the actual topic, the type of people who argue about and are annoyed about the use of the word literally are probably no fun and do not prefer arcade games, which are fun.

Then it would follow that the type of people who don't argue about, and are not annoyed about, the use of the word literally prefer simulation games?

Why, if that's the case, we could have simplified this whole thread by just asking how people feel about the word literally! Gabe, why didn't you do it that way?


My favorite thing about the question of the day is seeing what direction you guys take it. I usually wait to read the responses until late in the day, and I start with the last response and work my way back to see if I can figure out how things got there. It can be a wild ride, like it was today, lol.

There are 3 general types of responses, and they sometimes overlap. There are direct answers to the question(s), responses that focus more on the semantics of the question rather than the answer, and responses that pose additional questions (related, semi-related, or not at all related). It usually makes for an interesting read.
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To answer the original question though, I bounce back and forth between the two depending on my mood, although lately it has been more on the simulation side. One thing I don't really like is so-called "simcade" games like Forza Motorsport for racers and Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Siege for shooters. I don't think they're bad games by any stretch, but after playing some sim racers -- mostly iRacing -- the weird balance between sim and arcade in games like Forza just feels really off to me now. I don't think it's something I noticed beforehand, but it's definitely noticeable now. And with Siege, a lot of the controls, movement, and planning feel very sim like, but the actual gunplay feels off compared to something like ArmA III, at least in my mind. Those games just don't align with what my brain expects based on the context they provide.

So generally speaking, I'm a bit extremist with arcade vs. sim games -- I want either one or the other, but nothing in the middle, preferably.

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In my case, it's very simple – I largely prefer arcade games.

I have occasionally dabbled into simulation games (such as Sim City), but the juggling of various stats inspire me less than hopping of scuttling around.

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Patrick Carroll wrote:
JohnRayJr wrote:
Patrick Carroll wrote:
I was remembering how easy it used to be, when singular "they" was always wrong

We are way off track here, but a singular "they" hasn't been wrong for my entire lifetime, not even in academia.

In one sense, it has never been absolutely wrong in anybody's lifetime. But for much of my lifetime it has been declared "incorrect usage" by quite a number of textbooks, style manuals, etc. Even today, the Chicago Manual of Style advises against it in most formal writing, except under very special circumstances.

Quote:
Language evolves.

Indeed it does. And it's not an entirely natural evolution either; it gets political.


On a related note, Sweden created a new pronoun just a few years back – something that could bean both "he" and "she".

And as a lingo nerd, my immediate beef with this was they didn't think about the objective forms. I mean, how can you invent something to complete "he" and "she", and not think of that you also need a "him" and "her"?

Drives me mad.
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Zimeon wrote:
Patrick Carroll wrote:
JohnRayJr wrote:
Patrick Carroll wrote:
I was remembering how easy it used to be, when singular "they" was always wrong

We are way off track here, but a singular "they" hasn't been wrong for my entire lifetime, not even in academia.

In one sense, it has never been absolutely wrong in anybody's lifetime. But for much of my lifetime it has been declared "incorrect usage" by quite a number of textbooks, style manuals, etc. Even today, the Chicago Manual of Style advises against it in most formal writing, except under very special circumstances.

Quote:
Language evolves.

Indeed it does. And it's not an entirely natural evolution either; it gets political.


On a related note, Sweden created a new pronoun just a few years back – something that could bean both "he" and "she".

And as a lingo nerd, my immediate beef with this was they didn't think about the objective forms. I mean, how can you invent something to complete "he" and "she", and not think of that you also need a "him" and "her"?

Drives me mad.

We could all just learn Finnish and solve a whole lot of problems.
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Chinese uses "ta" for he, she and it. Pronounced the same, although written slightly differently.
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manukajoe wrote:
Chinese uses "ta" for he, she and it. Pronounced the same, although written slightly differently.

In fact, gendered pronouns is a feature largely restricted to the Indo-European family of languages. Finnish also has the benefit of a simple phonology and writing system. Hawaiian would be another good choice.
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paralipsis wrote:
Zimeon wrote:
On a related note, Sweden created a new pronoun just a few years back – something that could mean both

We could all just learn Finnish and solve a whole lot of problems.


In fact, we half-nicked it from Finnish, and much of the argumentation of why this new pronoun wasn't "strange" was that "well, our neighbours have it".

My personal reflection is that it's wonderful to use in board game rules – saves you from the clunky "he/she". However, it's yet to become fully natural. Might take another 10 years.

In Japanese, it's not a problem. They don't use pronouns that much. There is a famous manga in which a certain person suddenly is revealed as being of the unexpected sex. In Japanese, you realize that no one has ever referred to that person by a pronoun. Translating this into Swedish, all the way up to this revelation, would be quite the feat, as you would need to dodge the pronoun in the word balloons for all characters who knew the secret.
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manukajoe wrote:
Chinese uses "ta" for he, she and it. Pronounced the same, although written slightly differently.

Back in elementary school, I proposed a similar merged pronoun in English, combining he, she, and it. I pronounced it "h'shit". It did not catch on.
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Zimeon wrote:
On a related note, Sweden created a new pronoun just a few years back – something that could mean both "he" and "she".

You keep trying to get those pronouns right. Wasn't there another big issue, a couple decades ago, where the pronoun "ne" (or something like that) was banned?

I always figured that was the inspiration for the Monty Python sketch "The Knights Who Say 'Ni'".
 
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paralipsis wrote:
We could all just learn Finnish and solve a whole lot of problems.

Except for the small problem that Finnish and its cousin Hungarian are two of the hardest languages in the world for most of us to learn.
 
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Osirus wrote:
manukajoe wrote:
Chinese uses "ta" for he, she and it. Pronounced the same, although written slightly differently.

Back in elementary school, I proposed a similar merged pronoun in English, combining he, she, and it. I pronounced it "h'shit". It did not catch on.

A sign on the wall of the ROTC building at UCLA, when I was there in 1976, expanded that a bit. It said that, due to controversy over "he or she or it," we'd henceforth contract it to "horshit."
 
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paralipsis wrote:
manukajoe wrote:
Chinese uses "ta" for he, she and it. Pronounced the same, although written slightly differently.

In fact, gendered pronouns is a feature largely restricted to the Indo-European family of languages. Finnish also has the benefit of a simple phonology and writing system. Hawaiian would be another good choice.

If all you want to deal with is pronouns, yeah. But of those three, spoken Chinese would be the easiest (and probably most useful) language for most of us to learn (it varies according to our background, of course)--as long as we could get used to the four tones. Indonesian is another nice, easy one.
 
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Patrick Carroll wrote:
Zimeon wrote:
On a related note, Sweden created a new pronoun just a few years back – something that could mean both "he" and "she".

You keep trying to get those pronouns right. Wasn't there another big issue, a couple decades ago, where the pronoun "ne" (or something like that) was banned?

I always figured that was the inspiration for the Monty Python sketch "The Knights Who Say 'Ne'".

Ni. Which in modern Swedish is used as the plural "you" (y'all, if you will). But this is a twentieth century transition away from the formal/informal "you" which is still common in many continental European languages. When I was learning this at university, French was given as the prototypical example of this, and is often known even when speaking of other languages as the "tu/vous" contrast.

EDIT: If you are curious as the the loss of the formal/informal contrast in English, then this Wikipedia article on "thou" is a good start.
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Patrick Carroll wrote:
paralipsis wrote:
manukajoe wrote:
Chinese uses "ta" for he, she and it. Pronounced the same, although written slightly differently.

In fact, gendered pronouns is a feature largely restricted to the Indo-European family of languages. Finnish also has the benefit of a simple phonology and writing system. Hawaiian would be another good choice.

If all you want to deal with is pronouns, yeah. But of those three, spoken Chinese would be the easiest (and probably most useful) language for most of us to learn (it varies according to our background, of course)--as long as we could get used to the four tones. Indonesian is another nice, easy one.

Tonality in languages is torment for me. Even just the lexical pitch accent of Swedish and Norwegian trips me up. I understand it well enough, but reproducing it is torment to me. By contrast, I've never met a Finnish word I couldn't get reasonably close to with just a few tries with the aid of a native speaker. The grammar is intimidating, especially because the free word order can really trip up strict word order language speakers like us, but the systems are so gloriously well-ordered and logical. Probably due to it being a largely reconstructed language that is less that two hundred years old.

Chinese, Thai, and other highly tonal languages scare the bejeezus out of me.
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Patrick Carroll wrote:
Zimeon wrote:
On a related note, Sweden created a new pronoun just a few years back – something that could mean both "he" and "she".

You keep trying to get those pronouns right. Wasn't there another big issue, a couple decades ago, where the pronoun "ne" (or something like that) was banned?

I always figured that was the inspiration for the Monty Python sketch "The Knights Who Say 'Ne'".


Ha ha, maybe.

I wasn't part of that reform, but yeah, some half a century ago, Sweden tried (in the name of equality) to ban honorific speech – and to say "you" (insted of "Mr Carroll") to everyone. Saying "you" (singular) instead of "you" (plural) was at the point as family-like as it is in France today, but Swedes didn't care much, so nowadays, it's "you" with everyone. This causes slight problems when translating from languages that have specified honorifics.
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I like arcade-y type games when it relates to the game being fun and not super serious, but I don't like arcade-y type games when it relates to trying to get a high score.

When it comes to racing games, I prefer Burnout and NFS to Gran Turismo and Forza.
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Patrick Carroll wrote:
Zimeon wrote:
On a related note, Sweden created a new pronoun just a few years back – something that could mean both "he" and "she".

You keep trying to get those pronouns right. Wasn't there another big issue, a couple decades ago, where the pronoun "ne" (or something like that) was banned?

I always figured that was the inspiration for the Monty Python sketch "The Knights Who Say 'Ni'".

As the link states, The Knights Who Say Ni sketch is based on the Great Vowel Shift that happened in Middle English and how it is hard to know how words were pronounced back then, which is why it was so great in the movie. In fact, much of that movie is making fun of makes perfect sense to Medieval scholars... how they pronounced "knight" in the movie is actually closer to how it sounded in Medieval times than in modern times.

It has nothing to do with modern pronouns. Honestly, I'm thrilled the singular they has become more popular.
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To answer the question, I don't really like either on their own. I mean, I'll play anything given the right mood, particularly when I don't feel like playing my preferred genres. But I won't go out of my way to play arcade games. And the simulation games I love people on this very forum have argued about saying they aren't really simulation games... so yeah, that makes this harder to answer.

I have played far more arcade games than simulation games. However, I have rated the simulation games I have played much higher than arcade games.

But the type of simulation games I enjoy are either mixed genre, or really off-beat. Like Stardew Valley, Plague Inc: Evolved, Princess Maker 2, and Seedship
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I pretty heavily prefer things towards the arcade side. Simulation does not mean better game play, and simulation excludes a lot of things I especially enjoy, like fantasy/sci-fi elements and unrealistic variations on normal/real things.

For example, racing is fun, but racing and fighting is a lot more fun. Cars are not something I'm interested in, so perfectly simulating car driving doesn't make a game fun for me--it makes it tedious by emphasizing the wrong kind of detail.
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adularia25 wrote:

It has nothing to do with modern pronouns. Honestly, I'm thrilled the singular they has become more popular.


I noticed in the new Judgment game, the developers used the word "they" when describing a single person who can be either male or female, who is getting away from you in the "trail that person" type missions.

"They are losing you!"

However, it could just be a lazy developer who didn't want to code in the if/then logic and it's possible that you can follow two people at once.
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For me I think it depends on genre. For racing games it has to be arcadey for me. I love Forza Horizon, but even Forza (non-Horizon) isn't arcadey enough for me.

But other genres I'm happy to have more realism (to a point). I still like there to be a game in my game.
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GibbRS wrote:
adularia25 wrote:

It has nothing to do with modern pronouns. Honestly, I'm thrilled the singular they has become more popular.


I noticed in the new Judgment game, the developers used the word "they" when describing a single person who can be either male or female, who is getting away from you in the "trail that person" type missions.

"They are losing you!"

However, it could just be a lazy developer who didn't want to code in the if/then logic and it's possible that you can follow two people at once.


I mean, it could be, but since this is how millions of people speak without giving it any thought every day, and have done so for many decades, the simpler explanation would be that they programmed it the way they themselves would talk.
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I tend toward the arcadish side.
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