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Video Game» Forums » VGG Related » VGG Bugs

Subject: The Divorce Thread: Should we split or should we join? rss

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Sid Meier's Civilization Revolution could be split into a 3D (PS3 / 360) version and a 2D (DS / iPhone) version.
 
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I'm not sure if this thread is monitored anymore, but Sonic Colors (Wii) should definitely be split into two different games: Sonic Colors (Wii) and Sonic Colors (Nintendo DS).

While both games share similar stories, themes, and some mechanics, the games are completely different. The Wii version is a 3D platformer with 2D segements, while the DS edition is purely 2D. The games have completely different developers (Sonic Team vs. Dimps) and the portable edition is definitely NOT a port of the console edition.

I own both these games, and am waiting to add cover art until this split is made.
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Hi Guys-
I'm going to catch this thread up later. I'm also working on the merge thread.
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Chad V
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Ghostbusters: The Video Game should be split into three seperate entries:

Realistic - Xbox 360, PS3, & Windows
Stylized - PS2, PSP, & WII
Completely Different - DS

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostbusters_the_video_game for more details. I can help submit the other entries. Just let me know.
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LostDice wrote:
Ghostbusters: The Video Game should be split into three seperate entries:

Realistic - Xbox 360, PS3, & Windows
Stylized - PS2, PSP, & WII
Completely Different - DS

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghostbusters_the_video_game for more details. I can help submit the other entries. Just let me know.

I don't think the slight graphic restyling and minor differences between this gen and last gen consoles warrants a whole new entry page. Agree that DS seems pretty much its own thing though.
 
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I've submitted corrections for this, but the SNES release for Castlevania: Dracula X titled "Castlevania: Dracula X" was actually a different game (marketed as a sequel in Japan), and Muchi Muchi Pork! & Pink Sweets should be two games, since Muchi Muchi Pork! and Pink Sweets: Ibara Sore Kara were released separately in arcades before the Xbox 360 compilation.
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WEC Le Mans

is the home conversion of

WEC Le Mans 24

My copy of the spectrum version has "WEC Le Mans 24" on the front cover, but "WEC Le Mans" on the spine, on the tape and on the loading screen, so "WEC Le Mans" should remain as an alternate title.
 
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bryces wrote:
WEC Le Mans

is the home conversion of

WEC Le Mans 24

My copy of the spectrum version has "WEC Le Mans 24" on the front cover, but "WEC Le Mans" on the spine, on the tape and on the loading screen, so "WEC Le Mans" should remain as an alternate title.

I don't know the game well enough myself - anyone else know the games and have a contrary opinion?
 
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This site shows images of the game, showing the WEC Le Mans name used on the home conversion and the advert from the time which shows the WEC Le Mans 24 logo and arcade machine alongside the home conversions.

http://www.ysrnry.co.uk/articles/weclemans.htm
 
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Time Pilot has a Commodore 64 version with an alternative name of "Space Pilot".

I do not believe that this is an official conversion, but rather an unlicenced clone, so I think that it needs to be given a separate entry.

I think that alongside any official clones of Time Pilot, there are at least three seperate unlicenced versions all using the name Space Pilot:

Space Pilot Clone 1

The Space Pilot Commodore 64 release does not list a developer or publisher, but as far as I can see there was only one game released under this name for the Commodore 64, written by Henrik Wening and published initially by Kingsoft and outside Germany by Anirog (later Anco).

I think that this version was released for Commodore 64, Commodore 16, Commodore Plus/4 and ZX Spectrum

Sources:

http://www.wening.de/deutsch/spiele/space-pilot.html (in German - C64, C16 releases)
http://www.lemon64.com/games/details.php?ID=2396 (C64 release)
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=4&cam... (C64 release)
http://plus4world.powweb.com/software/Space_Pilot (Plus/4 release)
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/showmag.cgi?mag=HomeComputing... (Advert showing ZX Spectrum and C64 releases)

Space Pilot Clone 2

There appears to have been a bootleg arcade machine with a poorly hacked title page.

Source:

http://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=9678

Space Pilot Clone 3

Superior Software also released a Time Pilot clone called Space Pilot. There is no evidence that this has any connection to the version developed by Henrik Wening. It was written by Peter Johnson and David Lovekin.

Source:

http://www.stairwaytohell.com/games/superior/Superior-SpaceP...

Recommendation:

I think that the Space Pilot release currently under Time Pilot should be split into it's own entry, called "Space Pilot", with C64, C16, Plus/4 and Spectrum Releases.

I think that the arcade version does not deserve an entry in the database - it is not simply a clone, but rather a bootleg. It even uses Konami's name on the title screen in the image shown on KLOV. I think it therefore counts as Pirated, or at the very least IP Infringing, and therefore is excluded from the database according to the Guide to Data Entry.

I think that there should be a second Space Pilot game in the database to cover the Superior Software game. For clarity, I would call this "Space Pilot (Superior Software)".

I need to enter the Superior Software version to support a compilation which I am currently entering. I will therefore create that in the database and reference this post so that the admin can see my reasoning.
 
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I'm a little worried about the unlicensed stuff right now. That is something we don't have a definitive answer on right now, though I am trying very hard to get one.
I will gladly nuke the arcade bootleg, but we will need to review the clone.
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I would like to propose to split the Strike Fighters 2 series into a "Wings Over" series and a "Strike Fighters 2" series:
Wings Over Europe: Cold War Gone Hot,
Wings Over Vietnam,
Wings Over Israel
The series and separate games now have 'Strike Fighters 2: ~' as alternative names. I think it should be separate titles.

Rationale:
When this flight sim started, it was called: Project Strike Fighters, or so. After that, it evolved for Windows platforms into three separate games: W.o.Europe, W.o.Israel and W.o.Vietnam.

Since Windows Vista, the game needed a major overhaul to be ready for the new times. This resulted in the discontinuation of multiplayer possibility (so the older W.o.~ are multiplayer, SF2:~ is 1player only), since the platform functionality supporting that feature was discontinued in Windows.

The games all use a dynamic campaign, so 'standard considerations' like "offers the new game a new storyline? Y= new game, N= re-release of old title" don't work here. However, recently the developer started to bring out expansions, like "Strike Fighters 2 North Atlantic" which is not available for 'Wings over...'

In all, the series become more and more different from each other. I think to catalog this correctly, we do need to list them as separate games.
 
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zorazen wrote:
I'm a little worried about the unlicensed stuff right now. That is something we don't have a definitive answer on right now, though I am trying very hard to get one.
I will gladly nuke the arcade bootleg, but we will need to review the clone.


I'm sorry, should have been clearer. The arcade game is not yet in the database, I was just giving an example that there are three different games, written by different people, based on Time Pilot across a variety of platforms using the name Space Pilot. Currently there is only one in the database (incorrectly attached to the current Time Pilot entry), one in the pending queue (entered by me) and one arcade machine, which I think should not be included because it is not a clone, it is a bootleg.

I'm rather concerned about the suggestion that we may not accept clones or unlicensed games - you'd have to get rid of an awful lot of 8-bit titles! There have been plenty of court judgements that ruled that it was legal to sell unlicensed games for consoles (most famously Activision vs. Atari, but also Accolade vs. Sega, etc.) and that unless you actually copy the code and graphics, that clones are OK too (Epyx vs. Data East, Data East vs. Capcom, etc.). If games were legally sold back in the day, it would seem downright bizarre not to include them in the database today.
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Addition on my previous SF2/WO-post: originally we discussed this here: Another 'version or release' question. There we decided to list it as one game.

However, since then I can to realize that:
mb WO~ has multiplayer, SF2 has not.
mb For SF2 additional DLC is released on a regular basis
mb Both series (SF2 and WO~) are still sold separately
mb For SF2 expansions are released (extra campaigns, a.o) which are not available for WO~

I feel therefore that they should be split into 2 series, so we can better tell how this stuff is sorted.
 
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bryces wrote:
zorazen wrote:
I'm a little worried about the unlicensed stuff right now. That is something we don't have a definitive answer on right now, though I am trying very hard to get one.
I will gladly nuke the arcade bootleg, but we will need to review the clone.


I'm sorry, should have been clearer. The arcade game is not yet in the database, I was just giving an example that there are three different games, written by different people, based on Time Pilot across a variety of platforms using the name Space Pilot. Currently there is only one in the database (incorrectly attached to the current Time Pilot entry), one in the pending queue (entered by me) and one arcade machine, which I think should not be included because it is not a clone, it is a bootleg.

I'm rather concerned about the suggestion that we may not accept clones or unlicensed games - you'd have to get rid of an awful lot of 8-bit titles! There have been plenty of court judgements that ruled that it was legal to sell unlicensed games for consoles (most famously Activision vs. Atari, but also Accolade vs. Sega, etc.) and that unless you actually copy the code and graphics, that clones are OK too (Epyx vs. Data East, Data East vs. Capcom, etc.). If games were legally sold back in the day, it would seem downright bizarre not to include them in the database today.


Personally, I'm with you. I just can't get an "official" ruling on it yet. But I am working on getting one, one way or the other.
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The game Fourcube is currently listed as a "release" for 3-D Tic-Tac-Toe but it should instead be a separate video game entry.

While both games represent a 3-D implementation of tic-tac-toe, Forcube is not otherwise related to the Atari game which was the original basis for the 3-D Tic-Tac-Toe page.
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I just submitted a correction for Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (GC/PS2/Xbox) to be split. It is better to request to be posted here or should it be requested as a correction?
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LostDice wrote:
I just submitted a correction for Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (GC/PS2/Xbox) to be split. It is better to request to be posted here or should it be requested as a correction?


Correction. I have this thread subscribed, but all I end up doing is submitting a correction myself so that it's recorded in case I forget I read this thread.

The corrections thread is small right now, so things shouldn't get lost.
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Ziilch wrote:
LostDice wrote:
I just submitted a correction for Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone (GC/PS2/Xbox) to be split. It is better to request to be posted here or should it be requested as a correction?


Correction. I have this thread subscribed, but all I end up doing is submitting a correction myself so that it's recorded in case I forget I read this thread.

Agree with this sentiment - this thread gets flagged by my subscriptions, but once it's read, it's read (even if I just accidentally click the link during my lunch break). The correction stays permanently visible to the admins.
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Two related issues.

First suggestion:

This: Gran Trak 20
Should instead be a release for this: Gran Trak 20

These are the same game, they only featured different cabinets.

It seems to me that a game which comes in different arcade cabinet formats (i.e. stand-up vs cockpit vs cocktail, etc.) should reflect this through release entries for each type of cabinet, not separate video game entries. It might help to explicitly state this principle in the Data Entry guide...

Second suggestion:

On a related note, Gran Trak 20 was a two player version of Gran Trak 10, a single player game. (See: http://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=7993)

What's the call on this? Should Gran Trak 20 be combined with the Gran Trak 10 entry?

If two arcade games are essentially the same except for the number of players they can accommodate, that seems better handled as a release rather than a new game entry (which is what I did with the video game entry I just submitted for Sprint 4 and Sprint 8).
 
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Another example of the varying number of players issue:

Computer Space
Computer Space 2 Player

References:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Space
http://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=7381
http://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=10558
 
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The Maverick wrote:
Two related issues.

First suggestion:

This: Gran Trak 20
Should instead be a release for this: Gran Trak 20

These are the same game, they only featured different cabinets.

It seems to me that a game which comes in different arcade cabinet formats (i.e. stand-up vs cockpit vs cocktail, etc.) should reflect this through release entries for each type of cabinet, not separate video game entries. It might help to explicitly state this principle in the Data Entry guide...

Second suggestion:

On a related note, Gran Trak 20 was a two player version of Gran Trak 10, a single player game. (See: http://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=7993)

What's the call on this? Should Gran Trak 20 be combined with the Gran Trak 10 entry?

If two arcade games are essentially the same except for the number of players they can accommodate, that seems better handled as a release rather than a new game entry (which is what I did with the video game entry I just submitted for Sprint 4 and Sprint 8).


I agree with both of these submissions. It's dependent on gameplay, but those games you've suggested are effectively the same, except with the addition of a multiplayer option.
 
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Ziilch wrote:
It's dependent on gameplay, but those games you've suggested are effectively the same, except with the addition of a multiplayer option.

For this reason, I really wish that Minimum Players and Maximum Players were part of the Release instead of the Video Game.
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This: Road Runner (Midway Arcade Game)
Should instead be a release for this: Desert Gun

Per KLOV these are the same game, they only featured different cabinets.
 
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Return to Castle Wolfenstein: Platinum Edition is currently listed as a release under Return to Castle Wolfenstein (RtCW).

However, the Platinum Edition is a compilation of RtCW and the online multiplayer version Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory.

Since it is a compilation, the Platinum Edition should be split out into its own video game entry (as was done with Return to Castle Wolfenstein Special Edition, a compilation of RtCW and the original Wolfenstein 3D).
 
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