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Video Game» Forums » VGG Related » VGG Bugs

Subject: One System to Rule them All: The Duplicates thread rss

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Old & Chaotic Evil Bob
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The Maverick wrote:
This G2 Games publisher entry (no description): http://www.videogamegeek.com/videogamepublisher/3813/g2-game...

Should be merged into this G2 Games publisher entry: http://www.videogamegeek.com/videogamepublisher/16116/g2-gam...



this hurts my eyes cry

different view

ID 3813 G2 Games (Board Games)

ID 16116 G2 Games (Video Games)

edit:
they are not the same company
I changed the entry names
check this image
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This one:

http://videogamegeek.com/videogamepublisher/11928/sierra-onl...

Should be folded into this one:

http://videogamegeek.com/videogamepublisher/10274/sierra-ent...

The former already appears as an alternate name for the latter.
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stargate wrote:
edit:
they are not the same company

Except you left G2 Games videogames attached to both entries...
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The Maverick wrote:
stargate wrote:
edit:
they are not the same company

Except you left G2 Games videogames attached to both entries...


fixed that one game

the error of looking at a entry from the wrong domain soblue
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stargate wrote:

the error of looking at a entry from the wrong domain soblue

Not an error at all. The real problem is that companies can't readily be distinguished as being "from" a certain domain once they have a videogame attached. The page for G2 (boardgame publisher) looked just like any other videogame company when you jumped to it from the previously linked videogame.

Fix pending in the redesign...
 
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The Maverick wrote:
This one:

http://videogamegeek.com/videogamepublisher/11928/sierra-onl...

Should be folded into this one:

http://videogamegeek.com/videogamepublisher/10274/sierra-ent...

The former already appears as an alternate name for the latter.


Merg'd!
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Barring the highly unlikely possibility of there being TWO games with this name...

This entry: Freekscape: Escape from Hell

Should be merged into this one: Freekscape: Escape from Hell

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Duplicate companies

This: Image Works

Needs to be merged with this: Mirrorsoft
 
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The Maverick wrote:
Duplicate companies

This: Image Works

Needs to be merged with this: Mirrorsoft


BAD IDEA !

if Image Works is the label on the product, it should stay in the database as it's own entry

many Video Game developers & publishers have been merged, purchased by other companies, had their labels resurrected by a new legal entity

by merging away a label, we are inviting the submission of new releases and new company entries
... for entries already in the database

on BGG all the companies that Hasbro now owns have not been merged into Hasbro entry

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stargate wrote:
The Maverick wrote:
Duplicate companies

This: Image Works

Needs to be merged with this: Mirrorsoft


BAD IDEA !

if Image Works is the label on the product, it should stay in the database as it's own entry

many Video Game developers & publishers have been merged, purchased by other companies, had their labels resurrected by a new legal entity

by merging away a label, we are inviting the submission of new releases and new company entries
... for entries already in the database

on BGG all the companies that Hasbro now owns have not been merged into Hasbro entry

A little late for this idea, even though I agree with it in regards to some applications (one company buying another). However, I have seen numerous cases of old names combined with new names for a company.

On the other hand, nobody bought anybody in this instance (as is explained in the database description) - these are all names used by the same company (Mirrorsoft).

On account of this, I think they should be merged because Mirrorsoft is the publisher of all games with these labels. I ran across this as a game had three different editions published by Mirrorsoft - one with the Mirrorsoft logo, one with the Image Works logo and one with the Mirror Image logo - but all with a copyright credit to Mirrorsoft.

So it isn't like Mirrorsoft was hiding its association with the games.
 
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And on that note, you'll love this one:

This company: Event Horizon Productions (I)

Is incorrectly named -- the correct company name is Event Horizon Software.

Which conveniently already exists as an alternate name for this company: DreamForge Intertainment

So Event Horizon Productions should be deleted and the one game listed under it transferred to Event Horizon Software (aka DreamForge, the name the company later took on).

Isn't this why we have an Alternate Names field in the first place?

Again, I think a distinction regarding your objection needs to be made between the case of acquisitions (for instance, Mirrorsoft was eventually taken over by Acclaim, so those company entries should remain separate) rather than mere changes in name by the same company (Event Horizon having changed to DreamForge) or multiple names used by the same company (the foregoing Mirrorsoft example, detailed in the updated description I posted for the company).

Bottom line: Should Empire Interactive really be separate database entry from Empire Software??? I say no, it's just a name change, all those games should be listed under one publisher database entry.
 
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The Maverick wrote:
stargate wrote:
The Maverick wrote:
Duplicate companies

This: Image Works

Needs to be merged with this: Mirrorsoft


BAD IDEA !

if Image Works is the label on the product, it should stay in the database as it's own entry

many Video Game developers & publishers have been merged, purchased by other companies, had their labels resurrected by a new legal entity

by merging away a label, we are inviting the submission of new releases and new company entries
... for entries already in the database

on BGG all the companies that Hasbro now owns have not been merged into Hasbro entry



A little late for this idea, even though I agree with it in regards to some applications (one company buying another). However, I have seen numerous cases of old names combined with new names for a company.

On the other hand, nobody bought anybody in this instance (as is explained in the database description) - these are all names used by the same company (Mirrorsoft).

On account of this, I think they should be merged because Mirrorsoft is the publisher of all games with these labels. I ran across this as a game had three different editions published by Mirrorsoft - one with the Mirrorsoft logo, one with the Image Works logo and one with the Mirror Image logo - but all with a copyright credit to Mirrorsoft.

So it isn't like Mirrorsoft was hiding its association with the games.


it's not the association Mirrosoft has with the games
it's the publishing label used on the 26 games linked to Image Works
... I hope most of those are correct


from the Mirrorsoft entry
Quote:
Many games were not released under the name "Mirrorsoft", but under publishing labels like Image Works or Mirror Image.


by merging these labels, we are not correctly listing the publishing/developer label in the VG and Release data

adding alternate names causes submission admin notes like this
Quote:

There are 2 Mirrorsoft companys to choose from, is that correct? I choose the one which made Dynamite Dan both according to World of Spectrum an VGG, sice that one also made Action Force according to WoS.


it would be far better to upgrade the descriptions with links to related labels in the database and not add confusing alt names





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Easy to say - harder to apply in practice.

Which takes us back to Empire Interactive and Empire Software - in your view we should split Empire into two entries because they "modernized" the company name???

The main problem, which I think we can agree on, is a frustrating lack of consistency that sends mixed messages to users about what should be combined and what should be separated.

There are many examples where publisher subdivisions are combined, and probably as many examples where the subdivisions are specified as separate company entries. Having entered a number of vintage game entries, I have seen a variety of examples where publishers are split, and as many examples where they were combined.

A decision needs to be made based on what adds meaningful function, value and usability to the site - and a guide to Company data entry should be added.

So the first question is, given the lack of consistency, which approach is the best for the database? And are there cases that should have distinctions made (given the spectrum from simple name variations vs internal subdivisions of one publisher vs acquisitions and mergers of companies, etc.)

The second question is, should this discussion be in the split/merger thread instead?
 
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The Maverick wrote:
The second question is, should this discussion be in the split/merger thread instead?


Since the answer to this is no, I'll wait for a link to the correct place before I give my initial answer.
 
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The Maverick wrote:
And on that note, you'll love this one:

This company: Event Horizon Productions (I)

Is incorrectly named -- the correct company name is Event Horizon Software.

Which conveniently already exists as an alternate name for this company: DreamForge Intertainment

So Event Horizon Productions should be deleted and the one game listed under it transferred to Event Horizon Software (aka DreamForge, the name the company later took on).

Isn't this why we have an Alternate Names field in the first place?

Again, I think a distinction regarding your objection needs to be made between the case of acquisitions (for instance, Mirrorsoft was eventually taken over by Acclaim, so those company entries should remain separate) rather than mere changes in name by the same company (Event Horizon having changed to DreamForge) or multiple names used by the same company (the foregoing Mirrorsoft example, detailed in the updated description I posted for the company).

Bottom line: Should Empire Interactive really be separate database entry from Empire Software??? I say no, it's just a name change, all those games should be listed under one publisher database entry.



I have no problem with a modernized name change: Apple Computer > Apple

on the other hand if Apple decides to publish games under a new label called Marvrick Interactive
... that new label should have a new entry

now .. Event Horizon Productions (I) is correctly named !
it's a RPG publisher entered during our mutual time (July 2009) on the RPGG Team thumbsup

see this image



the Real Problem / Error is >>>>
Video Game Veil of Darkness is wrongly linked to a RPG Publisher

I had the reverse problem yesterday,
I user tried to change the name of a VGG developer linked to a RPG Item in error

luckily I saw the Company correction and another admin didn't approve it
I got the user to submit a new publisher and I fixed the links

I was slow to reply on this question, replies require some research
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stargate wrote:

the Real Problem / Error is >>>>
Video Game Veil of Darkness is wrongly linked to a RPG Publisher

Deja vu all over again... didn't we just run into another one of those?

EDIT: Yep - 6 APR.
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The Maverick wrote:
stargate wrote:

the Real Problem / Error is >>>>
Video Game Veil of Darkness is wrongly linked to a RPG Publisher

Deja vu all over again... didn't we just run into another one of those?

EDIT: Yep - 6 APR.


update

DreamForge Intertainment has a new primary name
and a Wikipedia description

Veil of Darkness has had both the Game and Release data corrected to reflect the correct Developer
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Ok, back to the same old, same old.

Or in this case - the same old, same old... same old, same old!

Keep these:

BattleTanx
BattleTanx: Global Assault

"Nuke" these:

[thing=116117][/thing]
[thing=116118][/thing]
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The Maverick wrote:
Ok, back to the same old, same old.

Or in this case - the same old, same old... same old, same old!

Keep these:

BattleTanx
BattleTanx: Global Assault

"Nuke" these:

[thing=116117][/thing]
[thing=116118][/thing]


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zorazen wrote:
The Maverick wrote:
Ok, back to the same old, same old.

Or in this case - the same old, same old... same old, same old!

Keep these:

BattleTanx
BattleTanx: Global Assault

"Nuke" these:

[thing=116117][/thing]
[thing=116118][/thing]



Out of interest, were these delorted or were they merged into the originals? The latter would be better so we don't affect anyone's collection.
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The latter two had no information, owners, etc. Otherwise, I would have merged.
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http://videogamegeek.com/videogamedeveloper/13086/magnetic-f...

and

http://videogamegeek.com/videogamedeveloper/22708/mr-chip-so...

The Magnetic Fields entry already shows "Mr Chip Software" as an alt name, which was an earlier name for the company.

The only game linked to the 22708 entry is Kikstart and this was definitely written by the Mr. Chip Software who published through Mastertronic and later became Magnetic Fields, so this is not a seperate company.

However I do think that there should be an additional alternative name in the Magnetic Fields entry - the early games I own display the name as "Mr. Chip Software" (this is also possibly how the confusion came about which caused somebody to create a second entry).
 
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bryces wrote:
http://videogamegeek.com/videogamedeveloper/13086/magnetic-f...

and

http://videogamegeek.com/videogamedeveloper/22708/mr-chip-so...

The Magnetic Fields entry already shows "Mr Chip Software" as an alt name, which was an earlier name for the company.

The only game linked to the 22708 entry is Kikstart and this was definitely written by the Mr. Chip Software who published through Mastertronic and later became Magnetic Fields, so this is not a seperate company.

However I do think that there should be an additional alternative name in the Magnetic Fields entry - the early games I own display the name as "Mr. Chip Software" (this is also possibly how the confusion came about which caused somebody to create a second entry).


I would like to leave these as separate entries
I edited the description of both entries, with links
I removed the alternate name

Mr. Chip Software was entered in May by
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I would think for this reason
Quote:
the early games I own display the name as "Mr. Chip Software" (this is also possibly how the confusion came about which caused somebody to create a second entry)


I can almost guarantee that a merge will result in additional entries in the future

by having separate entries we will list the developer / publisher branding used on the products

managing company entries
I have seen alternate names that are wrong
these names were added and approved for various reasons
some of these are good, some are bad

1. the company was linked to a wrong entry on a different domain and a user added the a alternate for a different type product
2. the above error leads to related errors .. changing the primary name gulp
3. users reference images that further destroy, scramble or distort the company
4. based on the poor data, a user on one of the domains requests a merge
... see the previous posts from The Maverick
Joe is a veteran user, I could have taken his requests and caused more problems and distortion
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OK, I kind of lost the thread of the discussion reading through the previous posts, and I can't see the current policy on Companies in the Guide to Data Entry.

What is the current policy? Because many games from older companies which I am entering seem to get their company names changed automatically to a later version of the name.

Should we have entries for separate Labels (e.g. Bulldog, which was a label of Mastertronic, or Westwood which was originally a distinct company, but became a Label of EA)?

What about when a company changes it's name? For example Ashby Computer Graphics, which became Ultimate Play the Game, and finally Rare? Should we have one entry in the system (Rare, with the others as alternate names) or three, so that the games released under each company name are correctly shown as such in the database?

Personally I would be in favour of having all the company names as separate entries so that somebody can search specifically for Ultimate Play The Game, for example, and get just the games which were published on that label, which I think is what you are suggesting. But hasn't the database gone too far in the other direction for that?
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first: company entries are shared across all three domains

I know of no guidelines for company entries
I have never seen a wiki

all the company labels owned by Hasbro have not been merged into one entry

we also have
The Avalon Hill Game Co
and
Avalon Hill Games, Inc.

the current policy on BGG is to use the publisher in the nickname
see Board Game Snap

if we were to merge two companies into one entry, the version nicknames would become a clusterfuck gulp
this would destroy the version data soblue

many Video Game publishers/developers have been merged, gone out of business, had the rights to their name bought by another company, etc
the Geek does not have the data structure to manage these things
we are a game database not a publisher database, company entries are for support

see The Learning Company
read the Wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Learning_Company

I suspect some company entries have already been merged
was the merge correct, I suspect not

I have no problem with a straight up name change: Apple Computer to Apple
they need to handled on a case by case basis, we need to know the facts
is it a name change, corporate buy out, legal issue, something else


as seen from the last page in this thread, users are not doing research
information has been wrong
the facts are not as stated by the users

I believe in this thread, that another admin merged aways a board game publisher
that happened to have the same name as a Video Game company

I also see merge requests in the company correction queue
many times I don't merge them, I do edit names and descriptions

my goal is to not screw up the database

see what I did above Re: One System to Rule them All: The Duplicates thread
the video game company now has name(name)
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