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Eclipse: New Dawn for the Galaxy» Forums » General

Subject: Upkeep and bankruptcy rss

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Beany Hotsauce
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I recently bought the ios version of eclipse and noticed that you get income from the systems you remove influence due to bankruptcy. Is this correct? Because this is not how we are playing the boardgame. Thanks in advance!
 
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Mathue Faulk
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MeanBean wrote:
I recently bought the ios version of eclipse and noticed that you get income from the systems you remove influence due to bankruptcy. Is this correct? Because this is not how we are playing the boardgame. Thanks in advance!

I think they simplified that aspect. That is not how the board game version is correctly played.

I noticed another subtle difference, but I can't remember it right now....
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MeanBean wrote:
I recently bought the ios version of eclipse and noticed that you get income from the systems you remove influence due to bankruptcy. Is this correct? Because this is not how we are playing the boardgame. Thanks in advance!


The Boardgame works different in this way. But why they have changed it?
 
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Rafael Fuentes
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Jordan Kane wrote:
MeanBean wrote:
I recently bought the ios version of eclipse and noticed that you get income from the systems you remove influence due to bankruptcy. Is this correct? Because this is not how we are playing the boardgame. Thanks in advance!


The Boardgame works different in this way. But why they have changed it?


It might be a bug. The program might not be perfect yet. Try to contact the developer, he's always in the forums, and give him feedback.
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Mathue Faulk
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Fremen wrote:
Jordan Kane wrote:
MeanBean wrote:
I recently bought the ios version of eclipse and noticed that you get income from the systems you remove influence due to bankruptcy. Is this correct? Because this is not how we are playing the boardgame. Thanks in advance!


The Boardgame works different in this way. But why they have changed it?


It might be a bug. The program might not be perfect yet. Try to contact the developer, he's always in the forums, and give him feedback.

I honestly don't think that it's a bug. It seems like a design decision. When you're 'bankrupt' in the game, it tells you exactly how many hexes you must abandon in order to pay your income. Obviously, in the board game, the number depends on what hexes you're abandoning. I can see why this may be both: a tricky thing from a programming standpoint, and a somewhat difficult concept for new players to understand (especially considering the lack of instructions in the game)....but it also makes going bankrupt much less severe, and I can see a bit of room for a possible loophole.
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Jim Richardson

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while(money_income + money_reserve - inf_cost is less than 0) prompt_user(bankrupt_msg);

Doesn't seem too hard... whistle
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Geoff Speare
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ParticleMan wrote:
while(money_income + money_reserve - inf_cost is less than 0) prompt_user(bankrupt_msg);

Doesn't seem too hard... whistle


I'll just type that in on my iPad, I'm sure the game will know what I mean.

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Beany Hotsauce
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ParticleMan wrote:
while(money_income + money_reserve - inf_cost is less than 0) prompt_user(bankrupt_msg);

Doesn't seem too hard... whistle
Seeing when an empire goes bankrupt is not the issue. For instance, you can leave interceptors on systems and capture them every turn, then just lift them up during the bankrupt phase and still get the income from these hexes. Assuming you have the colony ships to put the populations there every turn.
 
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MeanBean wrote:
ParticleMan wrote:
while(money_income + money_reserve - inf_cost is less than 0) prompt_user(bankrupt_msg);

Doesn't seem too hard... whistle
Seeing when an empire goes bankrupt is not the issue. For instance, you can leave interceptors on systems and capture them every turn, then just lift them up during the bankrupt phase and still get the income from these hexes. Assuming you have the colony ships to put the populations there every turn.


Um... no you can't. When you pull an influence back during upkeep because you don't have enough cash in reserve to pay your maintenance, the cubes on planets must go back on the population tracks. The only way to get production from planets you've lost is if you lose them during battle.

BOb
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Mathue Faulk
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pilotbob wrote:
MeanBean wrote:
ParticleMan wrote:
while(money_income + money_reserve - inf_cost is less than 0) prompt_user(bankrupt_msg);

Doesn't seem too hard... whistle
Seeing when an empire goes bankrupt is not the issue. For instance, you can leave interceptors on systems and capture them every turn, then just lift them up during the bankrupt phase and still get the income from these hexes. Assuming you have the colony ships to put the populations there every turn.


Um... no you can't. When you pull an influence back during upkeep because you don't have enough cash in reserve to pay your maintenance, the cubes on planets must go back on the population tracks. The only way to get production from planets you've lost is if you lose them during battle.

BOb

I assume MeanBean meant that you could do that in the iOS app where that rule isn't followed (as discussed above).
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mfaulk80 wrote:
pilotbob wrote:
MeanBean wrote:
ParticleMan wrote:
while(money_income + money_reserve - inf_cost is less than 0) prompt_user(bankrupt_msg);

Doesn't seem too hard... whistle
Seeing when an empire goes bankrupt is not the issue. For instance, you can leave interceptors on systems and capture them every turn, then just lift them up during the bankrupt phase and still get the income from these hexes. Assuming you have the colony ships to put the populations there every turn.


Um... no you can't. When you pull an influence back during upkeep because you don't have enough cash in reserve to pay your maintenance, the cubes on planets must go back on the population tracks. The only way to get production from planets you've lost is if you lose them during battle.

BOb

I assume MeanBean meant that you could do that in the iOS app where that rule isn't followed (as discussed above).


I see. Yes, that's a bad implementation then.
 
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MeanBean wrote:
I recently bought the ios version of eclipse and noticed that you get income from the systems you remove influence due to bankruptcy. Is this correct? Because this is not how we are playing the boardgame. Thanks in advance!


The iOS version works incorrectly in this aspect. The developers are planning to fix this in a future update.
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Jim Richardson

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Sorry if it's negative but I feel very strongly about what I'm saying. Eclipse is a great game and deserves to have been implemented correctly. They've been working on this app for a WHILE. I just don't see an excuse for a fundamental rule like bankruptcy not working correctly.

As a coder, when I look at what must have been hardest to implement properly, it HAS to be the AI strategy. Figuring out the optimal techs to buy / save for, how to beat your enemy on upgrades, when to pass and hope for key techs, and how to shift strategy constantly based on hex pulls and what the enemies are doing, especially in a larger multiplayer game. That's DAUNTING. I could fully understand if the AI still sucked and was being worked on for a long time. But a basic thing like bankruptcy?? Yeah, I just can't grasp how that would be messed up on release.
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Could it be something more simple as that is the way the developers understood the rule to work, and whoever it was that tested the game from Asmodee didn't notice the resources not going down?

Having never played the boardgame, I didn't realize my resources were not going down when I removed influence due to bankruptcy. Given the UI location of the resources track, it'd be pretty easy to miss.
 
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Graeme Christie
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After playing the game twice, I have noticed that the AI players go bankrupt all the time (especially early game, nearly every turn). I can only think that the developers doing the AI must have been very aware that going bankrupt was generating income. I can only assume they weren't aware this was a deviation from the rules.
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Simon Kamber
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chomama wrote:
After playing the game twice, I have noticed that the AI players go bankrupt all the time (especially early game, nearly every turn). I can only think that the developers doing the AI must have been very aware that going bankrupt was generating income. I can only assume they weren't aware this was a deviation from the rules.


We do that in the board version too. Being able to optimize your system distribution in the exploration phase is very valuable.

So that is not necessarily caused by the incorrect implementation.
 
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Gabriel Szaszko
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pilotbob wrote:
When you pull an influence back during upkeep because you don't have enough cash in reserve to pay your maintenance, the cubes on planets must go back on the population tracks. The only way to get production from planets you've lost is if you lose them during battle.

BOb

kilgore wrote:


The iOS version works incorrectly in this aspect. The developers are planning to fix this in a future update.


I noticed this yesterday and brought it up on the developer's comment board. It's an unfortunate error in implementing the rules as it fundamentally changes the gameplay. Because you're still earning resources when pulling influence away due to bankruptcy, the play is much more aggressive and you don't have the risk of a 'cascade failure' of money generation as you pull back influence disks as you do (and should) in the boardgame.

I've adjusted my play, to some extent, in the iOS version but I hope they fix it quickly as it's an important mechanic in a game that requires such careful resource management.
 
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Brian C
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The AI takes advantage of tactical bankruptcy frequently. I'm not sure that it is purposefully exploiting this bug though. I'll keep a closer eye on it.

While it's an issue, I can see how it was missed as you usually don't take discs off of Money planets during bankruptcy...
 
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Gabriel Szaszko
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Tactical bankruptcy = 'Why yes, I'll influence that non-planet discovery tile-laden hex to get the discovery and then bankrupt myself with extra actions so I'm forced to pull that tile back'

Tactical bankruptcy =/= 'Sure, I'll take extra actions because I only have to balance the influence track and then the population cubes come back to the population track.'

Population cubes, when removing influence due to bankruptcy, come immediately back to their respective population tracks. This is why money is balanced first then resources are earned during upkeep.

Losing population due to combat is a whole other thing (hence the graveyard existing). It's incredibly annoying that this is missed in the iOS port.
 
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Beany Hotsauce
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Good to hear they are fixing this. I just hope it doesnt mess up the AI, as it seems they are bankrupting themselves quite frequently.
 
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toof fou
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MeanBean wrote:
Good to hear they are fixing this. I just hope it doesnt mess up the AI, as it seems they are bankrupting themselves quite frequently.


The question is: when ?
I cannot play until then because an important rule is broken ((
*cry*
 
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Graeme Christie
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Yeah, I was just playing my first online game and my opponent went to -17 influence in his first turn with explores .. and I'm like hahaha - newb .. what's he doing ... oooooohhhhhh .. that's right, broken game ...

I imagine Planta must be off the charts with this strategy at the moment .....

Initially I didn't think this broke the game too badly .... that is until everyone is aware of the exploit, then the game just descends into explore into bankruptcy until the tiles run out, then play the last 4 turns of the game.


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Damian White
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From one of the two main threads:

b005t3r wrote:
MeanBean wrote:
One thing thats been bothering me. When you are bankrupt at the end of the turn and are forced to pick up influence disks, you still get income from the hexes you lose. This is a very big deal and will give you alot of extra resources during the course of the game as opposed to how the boardgame plays.


The first thing - it is a bug, it's on my list already.


So this is a bug, the developer (b005t3r, aka Łukasz Łazarecki) is aware of it, and it's on his list.

One hopes it's near the top of that list.
 
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James Deignan
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kilgore wrote:
MeanBean wrote:
I recently bought the ios version of eclipse and noticed that you get income from the systems you remove influence due to bankruptcy. Is this correct? Because this is not how we are playing the boardgame. Thanks in advance!


The iOS version works incorrectly in this aspect. The developers are planning to fix this in a future update.


I didn't even notice this. Guess I've been handicapping the AI a bit because all my moves have been planned out like the board game so I don't believe I've benefitted from this bug yet!
 
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Moved from BGG: Eclipse to VGG>> Eclipse: New Dawn for the Galaxy
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