Recommend
8 
 Thumb up
 Hide
42 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Video Game» Forums » Video Game Related » General Video Gaming

Subject: How should we treat video game adaptations of board games? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Simon Lundström
Sweden
Täby
flag msg tools
Now who are these five?
badge
Come, come, all children who love fairy tales.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There has been a discussion on BGG about this; the springing point being that someone reviewed Agricola and was upset when the review was moved from BGG to VGG (he DID review the iOS version).

After about 8 pages or "no you're wrong, no YOU're wrong", someone posted this poll and requested it was cross-posted on VGG. So…

archivists wrote:
I agree with what the moderates have said, that obviously the IOS version of Agricola is both a board game and a computer game.

There was a poll a few pages back when we were all that much younger. I'd be interested in the answer to the following question (The first poll that I can remember making). I'd be grateful for you input. And if some kind sole would be able to re-post it over on VGG that would be fantastic (I don't have an account over there and wouldn't know where to put it!). We are predominantly speaking as Boardgamers but there may be views we aren't hearing and it would be good to see an alternative. Thanks!

Poll: IOS and computer adaptations of board games and related content poll
Where would you like to see discussions of IOS and other computer adaptations of board games and related content?
On BoardGameGeek.com (BGG)
On VideoGameGeek.com (VGG)
On Both BGG and VGG
      115 answers
Poll created by archivists

Edit: The thread on BGG: Do iOS board games, such as Agricola, Carcassonne, Ascension, Ticket to Ride, etc. belong on BGG or VGG?
5 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benj Davis
Australia
Summer Hill
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Weird. They're video games. Why do so many people seem to think they shouldn't be treated as such?
Also, it'd be nice if there were more activity over here.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simon Lundström
Sweden
Täby
flag msg tools
Now who are these five?
badge
Come, come, all children who love fairy tales.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jlerpy wrote:
Weird. They're video games. Why do so many people seem to think they shouldn't be treated as such?

Well, that's my stance too, though I fully understand why some board gamers feel that "an iOS version of Agricola is of interest to me, but Angry Birds is not". It is, afterall, an emulated board game, so I guess it's the same argument that a C64 afficionado might be interested in the Wii, as the Wii VC actually has some C64 games.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M@tthijs
Netherlands
Venlo
flag msg tools
admin
Budo and boardgames...
badge
...weapons and wargames
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think it ought to be on VGG.

But doesn't every game have a 'linked items' block? The Agricola videogame (with its reviews) should be easy to find on the Agricola boardgame page.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simon Lundström
Sweden
Täby
flag msg tools
Now who are these five?
badge
Come, come, all children who love fairy tales.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
_Kael_ wrote:
I think it ought to be on VGG.

But doesn't every game have a 'linked items' block? The Agricola videogame (with its reviews) should be easy to find on the Agricola boardgame page.

To spare you the trouble of wading through that thread, people don't seem to think it's visible enough. Also, many think that a review for an iOS board game should be on the board game side.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M@tthijs
Netherlands
Venlo
flag msg tools
admin
Budo and boardgames...
badge
...weapons and wargames
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Then there should be consistency. I want these reviews moved to VGG right now!.... :
- Angry Birds: Knock on Wood - Help! My wife keeps attacking me with these birds!
- Angry Birds: The Card Game - There is fun here, you just have to look :-P
...as these are obviously videogames!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy
United Kingdom
Manchester
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Just to add my tuppence... As much as I dislike seeing our hot games cluttered with iOS versions of boardgames (I love boardgames and I love videogames, but I actually couldn't care less about an iOS version of a boardgame), since they require an electronic device to play, they should be listed here on VGG.

However, for direct conversions of boardgames, there should be a section on the boardgame page that links through to the videogame version.. and almost certainly a link the other way too!
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simon Lundström
Sweden
Täby
flag msg tools
Now who are these five?
badge
Come, come, all children who love fairy tales.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Grimwold wrote:
However, for direct conversions of boardgames, there should be a section on the boardgame page that links through to the videogame version.. and almost certainly a link the other way too!

There is a link in the "Linked forums", at least. But I have to agree it's pretty invisible. And it doesn't link to the videogame VERISON of it, but only on the forums.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benj Davis
Australia
Summer Hill
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
_Kael_ wrote:
Then there should be consistency. I want these reviews moved to VGG right now!.... :
- Angry Birds: Knock on Wood - Help! My wife keeps attacking me with these birds!
- Angry Birds: The Card Game - There is fun here, you just have to look :-P
...as these are obviously videogames!

Them being on BGG is consistent. They're board games.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simon Lundström
Sweden
Täby
flag msg tools
Now who are these five?
badge
Come, come, all children who love fairy tales.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jlerpy wrote:
Them being on BGG is consistent. They're board games.
No one disagrees with that, the post was a remark on that if iOS Agricola is a "board game", then any board game adaptations of video games should be considered as "video games".
5 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benj Davis
Australia
Summer Hill
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Zimeon wrote:
Jlerpy wrote:
Them being on BGG is consistent. They're board games.
No one disagrees with that, the post was a remark on that if iOS Agricola is a "board game", then any board game adaptations of video games should be considered as "video games".

Oh, I see! Sorry, I misunderstood; thought it was a nonsensical counterargument against the sensible side.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Wurtsboro
NY
flag msg tools
admin
designer
badge
We always have time for the things we put first.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Zimeon wrote:
Grimwold wrote:
However, for direct conversions of boardgames, there should be a section on the boardgame page that links through to the videogame version.. and almost certainly a link the other way too!

There is a link in the "Linked forums", at least. But I have to agree it's pretty invisible. And it doesn't link to the videogame VERISON of it, but only on the forums.

The bold "Agricola" at the start of the line for the link to a forum post is actually a link to the VGG Agricola, plus in the Linked Items block, if you choose video game adaptation, there are links there as well.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Enjoy some homing fireballs!
United States
Arlington
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm going to disagree with most posters here and say "BGG only".

They may technically be video games by most definitions, but you have to consider the audience. If we're trying to reach video gamers, the way to do it isn't by having Agricola, Dominion, Carcassonne, Small World, and Le Harve on the front page.
6 
 Thumb up
5.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Wasserman
United States
Morgantown
WV
flag msg tools
I don't think he would like that.
badge
"A single action or event is interesting, not because it is explainable, but because it is true." - Goethe
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Zimeon wrote:
archivists wrote:
And if some kind sole would be able to re-post it over on VGG that would be fantastic (I don't have an account over there and wouldn't know where to put it!).
Off-topic, but... shake I wonder how many other people on BGG think they don't have a VGG account...
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Old & Chaotic Evil Bob
United States
Plainville
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
I'm not the Admin you are looking for
badge
O&CE Bob has Retired as a Geek Admin
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mymil wrote:
Zimeon wrote:
archivists wrote:
And if some kind sole would be able to re-post it over on VGG that would be fantastic (I don't have an account over there and wouldn't know where to put it!).
Off-topic, but... shake I wonder how many other people on BGG think they don't have a VGG account...

my guess, 1000's cry

8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Birzer
United States
Burke
Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Cynical wrote:
I'm going to disagree with most posters here and say "BGG only".

They may technically be video games by most definitions, but you have to consider the audience. If we're trying to reach video gamers, the way to do it isn't by having Agricola, Dominion, Carcassonne, Small World, and Le Harve on the front page.

Well, first off the general video game populace, in my experience, isn't put off by the presence of board game video games. In fact, I see a lot of healthy demand for the Ticket To Ride game on Steam whenever Amazon puts it on sale. I go to video game conventions, and there is usually a very healthy board gaming section as well.

Second, I think you want to address a symptom and not the actual problem, which is that we are a small community of video gamers on a primarily board gaming site. There are probably a lot of things that could be done to work on growing the site, but I don't see exiling a class of video games will do that.

I guess if we want to give up and say this site is a failure, we can return board games VGs to BGG and shut this site down. But, if we are serious about this site, there needs to be work done so that board gamers can find stuff about video game versions of games. Saying it should be just on BGG is lazy, and is basically a message that VGG can not fulfill that purpose.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Birzer
United States
Burke
Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mymil wrote:
Off-topic, but... shake I wonder how many other people on BGG think they don't have a VGG account...

Considering that sign-ons on both sides act like they are independent of each other, I'm not surprised by that view. (You can be signed on to VGG, but go over to BGG and have to sign in again.)
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Liam
Scotland
flag msg tools
admin
badge
I am BGG's official honey trap
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
(I've witten extensively in the original thread over on BGG but have now largely given up.)

Personally I think the official software or hardware flowchart is the best compromise.

Hardware games go to BGG.
Software games go to VGG, including software versions of boardgames.

But related records should be/ and are linked so it's easy to view them from their respective BGG or VGG record, while not forcing them on other users.

I'm fine with chat across the sites on ios versions of board games but this should be kept out of the game records.

1. So they are organised and it's easy to find relevant information to what your looking for.
2. So users who subscribed to learn about the hardware version don't get a bunch of false notifications.
3. So each version has it's own record - making all the funky mechanics build into the Geek meaningful.

Hopefully in the future a more customisable interface will be developed where users can merge records and forums from across the three sites.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel Eddy
United States
Coeur d'Alene
ID
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TheLongshot wrote:

I guess if we want to give up and say this site is a failure, we can return board games VGs to BGG and shut this site down. But, if we are serious about this site, there needs to be work done so that board gamers can find stuff about video game versions of games. Saying it should be just on BGG is lazy, and is basically a message that VGG can not fulfill that purpose.

It's not lazy, and doesn't make it a failure to include/keep iOS stuff on BGG. I have zero interest in discussing what you might call traditional video games. None. I will however have frequent conversations about games both on and off of BGG with friends in a face to face setting and via other means about Agricola, the Agricola app, Eclipse, and the Eclipse app etc...

It would much more amazing to discuss all of that in one spot, then to have to jump back and forth all of kingdom come to talk about something that is virtually identical to another thing.

Just because some extremely few people want their niches protected and want to shout at me, "NO!!! Don't talk about electronic devices in here EVER!!"

It makes no sense.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel Eddy
United States
Coeur d'Alene
ID
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
monkeyhandz wrote:

I'm fine with chat across the sites on ios versions of board games but this should be kept out of the game records.

This tripe about game "records" is baseless. If someone had a rules question on 'Gric and came to BGG to ask if the app was applying the rule right, should that thread get delete/moved over to VGG? That would seem extremely rude to me.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Liam
Scotland
flag msg tools
admin
badge
I am BGG's official honey trap
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'd probably let that pass depending upon the full text.

Your review though was about the Agricola IOS posted in the BGG Agricola record and so it got moved to the IOS record. This is not a new policy.

The thread wouldn't get deleted (unless it was a duplicate and hadn't got any responses).

eekamouse wrote:

Just because some extremely few people want their niches protected and want to shout at me, "NO!!! Don't talk about electronic devices in here EVER!!"

It makes no sense.

I've already addressed this in detail.

Please don't post about IOS games in a BGG record.

But feel free to create an IOS blog on BGG, general chat about IOS board games is also permitted in computer based board gaming, threads on games with record would be moved, is the longstanding policy.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel Eddy
United States
Coeur d'Alene
ID
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
monkeyhandz wrote:
I'd probably let that pass depending upon the full text.

Your review though was about the Agricola IOS posted in the BGG Agricola record and so it got moved to the IOS record. This is not a new policy.

The thread wouldn't get deleted (unless it was a duplicate and hadn't got any responses).

Fair enough, but do we really need arbitrary definitions just tossed out. The Geekmod's and several users on BGG (whom I posit never visit VGG) got a lot of use out of it and expressed as much. It's too much a of a slippery slope/fine line for some individual to mark converstations/threads/rules questions/reviews as being wholly one thing or another.

The argument is made that people who are into the app won't have any interest in an unboxing video. Guess what? I don't have have any interest in unboxing videos are live solely on BGG. Not everyone likes everything. I don't like threads about why Kickstarter sucks, but you don't see me vouching for KickstarterGameGeek.com to be created.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Liam
Scotland
flag msg tools
admin
badge
I am BGG's official honey trap
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hey don't get me wrong it's a great write up(sorry got it confused with the written review I read - I'll check out the video later - if it's to your usual standard I'm sure this praise will be earned).

Quote:
The argument is made that people who are into the app won't have any interest in an unboxing video. Guess what? I don't have have any interest in unboxing videos are live solely on BGG. Not everyone likes everything. I don't like threads about why Kickstarter sucks, but you don't see me vouching for KickstarterGameGeek.com to be created.

Ok but you're supposed to post unboxing videos of the hardware in the BGG record.

You're not supposed to post videos of the IOS app on the BGG record.

What an individual likes is not the issue what they can expect to see in a record is - like all databases there is a logic to how the the Geeks database(S) have been created.

Some users want IOS's in the BGG record others don't. The Geek has a policy which sets out to find a compromise between these two positions, while trying to maintain organised and useful site(s).

Again I do hope a solution will be created in the future but for now we have to compromise.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Thunkd
United States
Northampton
MA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
monkeyhandz wrote:
I'd probably let that pass depending upon the full text.

Agricola IOS app occupation question

Admittedly he mentions the app in the title and post, but his question is about a misunderstanding of the rules of the game, nothing to do with the app.



1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mr. Stabs
Canada
Ottawa
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Governing discussions about videogame implementations of boardgames is a much foggier issue than governing the database entries of these entities themselves.

From a database perspective, the VG-implementations should be on VGG, whereas the physical objects should be on BGG. I don't think there is a good argument against this, from a database perspective. I have no good answers regarding how to approach the threads discussing the games and whatnot, however - questions about app errata and whatnot should be on their respective VGG entries, and the overarching VGG-BGG links should make them appear on the BGG side, I guess.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   |